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Is American Science Doomed......


Steve_S e2
9 176 3 United Kingdom
9 Oct 2012 10:29PM

Quote:It's rather convenient that religion has the trump card called faith to explain their belief in fairy tales.




Religion always plays the trump card. Even eminent religous leaders have accepted the Big Bang Theory, but the trump card is that God started it. Wink

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julesm 10 1.7k 7 United Kingdom
9 Oct 2012 10:29PM
But of course none of that is a surprise because religion is a very human thing
julesm 10 1.7k 7 United Kingdom
9 Oct 2012 10:33PM

Quote:It's rather convenient that religion has the trump card called faith to explain their belief in fairy tales.


Religion always plays the trump card. Even eminent religous leaders have accepted the Big Bang Theory, but the trump card is that God started it. Wink



Of course, that makes perfect sense. I did think that last puzzle was the only hiding place left for god, but even that's been exposed as the theory behind the (excepted) Big Bang is that nothing, not even time existed before the Big Bang, so there was nothing and no time for anything to exist. Not even a god.
julesm 10 1.7k 7 United Kingdom
9 Oct 2012 10:36PM
Gotta love Luke 19:27
Steve_S e2
9 176 3 United Kingdom
9 Oct 2012 10:43PM
Ah, but God thought "I will create a thing called time and I will create it at the Big Bang. I will also create time dilation so that the humans who are also part of my plan, will not understand that a few billion of their years is only actually 6 days. I can do this because time does not apply to me". TongueWink
User_Removed 10 3.3k 4 United Kingdom
9 Oct 2012 10:45PM

Quote:Millions of people could believe there's a chocolate teapot spinng in geo stationary orbit above earth, but the mere existence of the belief, doesn't mean the teapot exists.


Completely agree. Those people will argue that the lack of evidence in favour of the teapot and evidence that contradicts the teapot is to test our faith....
mikehit e2
5 7.1k 11 United Kingdom
10 Oct 2012 12:35AM

Quote:Is seems to me more false and untrue to follow the ways of fallible humans than to follow the Bible.

And exactly what species wrote the Bible?

The Bible is the word of God recollected by humans. The word "Bible" literally means "paper" or "scroll" so it is a direct recollection from writings and accounts at the time.

And on what basis do you make a claim that some mythical being was involved in the production of the book.

Personally speaking, I have had some experiences that cannot be explained otherwise. The fundamental message of the Bible (and please note this) is "Believe and you shall see". That is what faith is all about



I don't understand how you have conflated two quite different ideas.
The article is about a man who interprets the bible somewhat spuriously to propose a 'fact' that goes against the strength of evidence in the scientific community.
You are talking about a 'fundamental message' of acceptance and reconciliation which is a quality you wish to take from the bible and has no relevance to the article.

However there is a very important error in what you are saying: the Christian New Testament is the part that teaches forgiveness and acceptance. The article makes it quite clear that Broun and his ilk believe in the literal truth of the Old Testament which far removed from this message (I am a jealous God, I am a vengeful God etc).
julesm 10 1.7k 7 United Kingdom
10 Oct 2012 7:19AM
Luke 19:27
Ah yes, love and forgiveness.
sherlob e2
8 2.4k 126 United Kingdom
10 Oct 2012 7:47AM

Quote:Er, your mistaking a theory with a fact, even though you switch between the two phrases throughout your comment!


No I am not, but it is clear you don't appreciate the philosophical position your adopting. Ok - I know this is a gross simplification but...

Hypothesis = unverified theory
Theory = verified hypothesis
Fact = something accepted as 'truth'
Truth = a philsophically laden and contested notion

As I said in an earlier post - I can see there is likely to be no middle ground. We are coming from 2 completely different philosophical perspectives, and I don't think I can be bothered with this anymore... besides this seems like its turning into a religious debate rather than one related to human rights.


Quote:
"Nothing in education is so astonishing as the amount of ignorance it accumulates in the form of facts."


-- Henry Brooks Adams

lobsterboy e2
11 14.2k 13 United Kingdom
10 Oct 2012 8:14AM

Quote:No I am not, but it is clear you don't appreciate the philosophical position your adopting.


Maybe its not a philosophical position but a practical one. If you verify a hypothesis enough then for all practical purposes it becomes indistinguishable from truth.

But then I come from the position that almost all philosophy is just arguing the toss...
cambirder 10 7.2k England
10 Oct 2012 9:25AM

Quote:besides this seems like its turning into a religious debate rather than one related to human rights.


Where did human rights come into this? Are you saying that people have a right to lie about science to fit their particular world view? This issue is a really a clear cut one. One one side we have science and the search for how the universe works on the other a Christian sect who "know" all the answers and then invent a bunch of untestable pseudoscientific hypotheses that happen to fit those answers (lying for Jesus)

There is no middle ground here these people are not fit for science roles and in general are kept well away from them. More importantly they should also be kept well away from children's education but with the rise of home schooling and independent religious schools and universities this is not the case so the ignorance is perpetuated. Having said that I suppose this is a HR issue as those children are being denied a decent education.
jondf 8 2.7k
11 Oct 2012 9:33PM

Quote:Gotta love Luke 19:27


Charming, isn't it? Smile

FACT: Not all Americans are fat, God-fearing, bible punching jerks ......... WHAT!?! ......they ARE!?! Are they hell!

I saw and met an American band last night called Monterey Revisited featuring ex-members of three bands that appeared at the now legendary Monterey Pop Festival of 1967. No finer, more friendly or musically competent people could you wish to meet. Yet one thing that dominated amongst them all was a healthy dislike of American politics, big business and the status quo. Call it a hippy mindset if you want but these people were capable, intelligent, honest folk who I think more fairly represented a cross-section of America than much of the archetypal media-fed drivel we see and hear so much these days.

Monterey 1967 Revisted
THE FORMER MEMBERS of Country Joe & The Fish - Steve Miller Band - The Blues Project.
They are:
Bruce Barthol & David Bennet Cohen (Country Joe & The Fish)
Roy Blumenfeld (The Blues Project)
Greg Douglass (Steve Miller Band)

mr.jpg

Billlee 8 5.5k England
13 Oct 2012 10:33PM
Phew!! Just spent a long time reading this thread! All the old arguments are here, the atheist/non believer scientifically orientated wanting facts, evidence, truth..as they see it. The ones who believe in God stating their own views.
But is truth something set in stone, or is it what an individual believes until he or she becomes convinced that something else is the true fact ? Why do the scientifically minded demand scientific proof of God's existence when by the very definition of science anything of a supernatural nature is precluded ?

BTW I spent the first 68 years of my life as a scientific atheist.... so I know all the arguments, I now know in my heart that God is real.
Also @ Julesm, who seems to have gone the other way..... you are doing the cherry picking I see, this verse should not be taken out of context, it is part of a parable... You need to quote at least the whole of Luke 19 and not just one verse, but I guess then it would not be as punchy, and probably very few people would be bothered to read it.
cambirder 10 7.2k England
13 Oct 2012 11:07PM

Quote:All the old arguments are here, the atheist/non believer scientifically orientated wanting facts, evidence, truth..as they see it.


From that statement I assume you are a YEC, because only YECs come out with this type of BS. You do not have to lack faith to believe in absolute truths such as the very old age of the universe. The Roman Catholic Church and many protestant sects have no problem with modern scientific theory. This is not a believer vs non believer thing it is specifically about the denial of the blindingly obvious by a group of people who's twisted faith blinds them to the truth and more importantly their determination to indoctrinate others to their cause.

No one who holds such views should be let anywhere near a position of power or influence because they are incapable of rational thought.
User_Removed 10 3.3k 4 United Kingdom
14 Oct 2012 1:21AM
Billee where did Noah keep the whales on his ark?

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