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Is American Science Doomed......


mikehit e2
5 6.8k 11 United Kingdom
17 Oct 2012 1:54PM

Quote:@Cambirder.... Still reading Smile

@Cambirder & Mikehit is http://www.earthage.org/EarthOldorYoung/scientific_evidence_for_a_worldwide_flood.htm ALL Pseudoscience???



That article is classic pseudoscience technique: throw in lots of examples with minimal information and with sudden turns in thinking to keep the reader wheeling, add some throw away comments of the author's pre-formed opinion to make it read as though those opinions are an explanation, then add a few references to scientific fact alongside those opinions so that it reads as though both are on a par hoping that the reader will not follow up on those references, which they probably will not because they are reading the article to affirm their own belief, not peer review the evidence (and in my experience those references are taken out of context and do not support the hypothesis in any way). By the way, every reference numbered in the page seem to lead to other pages in this same website or other creationist websites which is hardly and independent source.

Googling something as simple as 'polystrate fossils' gives plausible non-theistic explanations.
Check here for a lively debate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3APolystrate_fossil

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mikehit e2
5 6.8k 11 United Kingdom
17 Oct 2012 2:01PM
By the way, if you are proposing that the upright trees were caught in a single cataclysmic event, would not the trees be embedded in a single 40-foot sediment and not multiple layers?
Carabosse e2
11 39.5k 269 England
17 Oct 2012 2:03PM
It's all allegorical, as my Sunday School teacher used to say. Wink
cambirder 10 7.2k England
17 Oct 2012 2:18PM
Your link is broken (the link and link text are back to front) , however I did manage to have a look at that web page and there is no science there just a bunch of statements with no evidence backing them up. Too many to go though but I'll debunk a couple of these statements for you.


Quote:In Mountains all over the world one can find sea shells and other marine fossils. These include the Sierras, the Swiss Alps, the Himalayas and many more.


This is supposed to prove the marine creatures were deposited during the flood while these very tall mountains were under water. Even supposing the flood actually happened there would be no fossils on these mountains because for one thing gravity would have directed the sediment to the valley floors, and secondly by the time the waters had risen 8000 meters there would be no living molluscs to be deposited as they would have all died from changes in salinity and temperature. The fossils are there because the sedimentary rock they are preserved in has been uplifted by tectonic collision.


Quote:Fossils don't form on lake bottoms today, nor are they found forming on the bottom of the sea. instead, they normally only form when a plant or animal is buried soon after it dies


Wrong fossilization is an ongoing process, animal remains are currently being buried by sediment and are on their way to becoming the fossils of the future. The vast majority of fossils are formed from the hard skeletons of animals which do not require rapid burial to survive. Plant fossils and soft bodied animals are much rarer because they tend to rot before being buried, so if a global flood had happened I would have thought we might find more of them.


Quote:In caves and fissures in England and Whales and all over western Europe are found bones and bone fragments of many types of extinct and extant animal species


Do I need to go beyond the huge spelling mistake here.

Basically Randy S. Berg has just cut and paste his "evidence" from creationist web sites and he appears to have no scientific qualifications what so ever.
Carabosse e2
11 39.5k 269 England
17 Oct 2012 2:46PM
What about the story of Jonah? We could have a whale of a time with that! Grin

(Hi Jas! Wink)
lobsterboy e2
10 14.2k 13 United Kingdom
17 Oct 2012 2:46PM

Quote:It's all allegorical, as my Sunday School teacher used to say. Wink

That's right. Its all the absolute truth till you find holes in it then it become allegory.

Thigh what the allegory is for:


Quote:Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. (Deuteronomy 13:13-16 KJV)



I am not sure what the allegory is there though. Something about it is better to comit genocide than to accidentaly worship the wrong god or something.
Carabosse e2
11 39.5k 269 England
17 Oct 2012 2:49PM
I wonder if anyone on here has read the Bible from start to finish?

I have it in ebook form and started to read it on my Kindle..................... but I didn't get beyond the "begats". Sad




clown-light.jpg

petebfrance 2 1.3k France
17 Oct 2012 2:49PM
One of my favourite treatments on Ancient History / Gods etc. is a book by Erich von Däniken called 'Chariots of the Gods' which was apparently a sensation in its time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken

All starts with fishy type beings if I remember rightly, from outer space of course, with the Nazca Lines in Peru being a sort of Intergalactic Air Terminal. Great stuff - a really enjoyable read!

A Disclaimer - this is not meant as sarcastic comment on the existence or not of God, just as something that may or not interest people.

Pete
Carabosse e2
11 39.5k 269 England
17 Oct 2012 2:51PM

Quote:a book by Erich von Däniken called 'Chariots of the Gods'


Always wanted to read that. Did you find it convincing?
mikehit e2
5 6.8k 11 United Kingdom
17 Oct 2012 2:51PM

Quote:

Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. (Deuteronomy 13:13-16 KJV)




Hmmm...If I did not know where that came from I could even have mistaken that for another religion said to be intolerant and warmongering. But let's not go there....
lobsterboy e2
10 14.2k 13 United Kingdom
17 Oct 2012 2:52PM

Quote:I have it in ebook form and started to read it on my Kindle..................... but I didn't get beyond the "begats". Sad


You can always read the novelisation .
mikehit e2
5 6.8k 11 United Kingdom
17 Oct 2012 2:59PM
petebfrance 2 1.3k France
17 Oct 2012 3:04PM

Quote:Always wanted to read that. Did you find it convincing?

Not convincing, but I did enjoy it.
Being quite keen on 'prehistory' at the time I enjoyed the references and finding more about them - this was (I'm pretty sure) before Internet days so pretty-much any book of that sort was worth looking at. I thought his theories were quite nice and his writing-style was fairly persuasive, but, well......I'm afraid I just thought it good fun and a rather nice flight of fancy.

Pete
keith selmes 11 7.1k 1 United Kingdom
17 Oct 2012 3:30PM

Quote:in the good ol' US of A, to 'come out' as not espousing a mainstream religion is the death knell to any hopes of getting elected.

If that is true, sounds like even Bill would have a few problems

Really sad when you consider how the founders of the country tried to avoid it

"Historian Gregg L. Frazer argues that the leading Founders (Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Wilson, Morris, Madison, Hamilton, and Washington) were neither Christians nor Deists, but rather supporters of a hybrid "theistic rationalism".[23]"
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States#Religion )
Carabosse e2
11 39.5k 269 England
17 Oct 2012 3:37PM
Even Mitt Romney being a Mormon has been something of an issue in the US, i.e. can a president be a member of a sect which identifies itself as Christian but is not mainstream Christian?

It is something Romney has, pretty much, had to distance himself from.

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