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Is American Science Doomed......

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Billlee
Billlee  85531 forum posts England
18 Oct 2012 - 11:43 PM

To all who have been taking part in this debate, will you please accept an apology from me?

I have been 'debating' this issue from a 'comfort zone ' stand point. I have read much in the last few days to try and gain knowledge for my arguments, to try and 'polarise' the situation. I see now that a lot of 'stuff' on both sides of the debate are attempts to fit observations into a given theory. This morning I looked into Genesis, to see what is actually written there about creation..... I do believe God created the universe .... but in Chapter 1:24-25 we read

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
New International Version (NIV) ( Note, I have read other versions too, and they all translate from the Hebrew in the same way.)

So that leaves the debate open as we seem to have a disparity between 24. "Let the land produce living creatures....." and 25. "God made the wild animals ....." I personally do not think of it as a disparity, but a open view of the mechanism employed.


I also read a footnote which said :- "It is not important how long it took God to create the world , whether a few days , or a few billion years, but that He created it just the way He wanted it"


My arguments have been soulish, and I have been trying to convince others of my point of view, without being in possession of all the facts, and all the understanding necessary to argue in such a manner, causing division rather than harmony. For that I apologise.

I am now thoroughly out of my "comfort zone" !

As a Christian, I do believe God is the the Creator of all things, He just hasn't told us exactly how He did it!!

Science actually glorifies God's creation, it does not diminish it.


Thank you for this debate.

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18 Oct 2012 - 11:43 PM

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thewilliam
18 Oct 2012 - 11:58 PM

If you want to get a better sense of the first books of the Bible, you could get a Hebrew "interlinear" version. The literal translation of each word is given underneath and there's a "normal" English version to the side.

Mine gives the Hebrew with pointing so that we know the vowels and there's a space between the words so that people like me with just a rudimentary knowledge of Hebrew will find it much easier to use.

Remember that the established Christian Church hasn't been very sympathetic to the Jewish cause and has mis-translated or mis-represented much of the Torah for its own reasons.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139385 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
19 Oct 2012 - 12:05 AM


Quote: Science actually glorifies God's creation, it does not diminish it.

There are plenty of scientists, Bill, who are committed and devout Christians and see no conflict whatever between their espousal of an intelligent force, behind creation, and espousal of scientific investigation. They would almost certainly take the view quoted.

I once saw the Big Bang described as God's Handclap. Smile

Billlee
Billlee  85531 forum posts England
19 Oct 2012 - 12:09 AM

Thank you, thewilliam and Carabosse.

strawman
strawman  1021997 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
19 Oct 2012 - 12:31 AM

Bill I admire the way you have come back on this thread and given a new view/thought. I can see why people can look at the wonder of the world and how it works (as we understand it now) and say this only makes the work of God even more impressive.

Have a good evening.

Last Modified By strawman at 19 Oct 2012 - 12:32 AM
cambirder
cambirder  107202 forum posts England
19 Oct 2012 - 12:36 AM


Quote: I am now thoroughly out of my "comfort zone" !

I congratulate you for going there Billie, most would not have done so.

Billlee
Billlee  85531 forum posts England
19 Oct 2012 - 1:15 AM


Quote: I am now thoroughly out of my "comfort zone" !

I congratulate you for going there Billie, most would not have done so.

Thank you for that. My Faith in God has actually been strengthened by this.... God cannot be put into a box, so I reckon my thinking should not be confined to a box either !

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139385 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
19 Oct 2012 - 2:46 AM

I have long held the view that "holy books" whilst, in part, containing useful ethical codes, suffer from the fact they were written by members of the species homo sapiens... with their own agendas.

They can get in the way of both science and what one might loosely term spirituality, i.e. those areas where science inevitably hits a brick wall, and may always do so.

This thread is an example of how easily we can get bogged down in arcane arguments, because of a book, written a long time after the life of its principal subject. When something like that gets institutionalised, we should be on our guard.

thewilliam
19 Oct 2012 - 2:34 PM

I remember overhearing a conversation between a physicist and a clergyman.

The priest said that he couldn't accept that the universe could be anywhere near the size that astronomers believe because it didn't fit in with the biblical idea of creation. The scientist replied that his G-d was powerful enough to have created the universe, however large it turns out to be. He added that the more he learns about the wonders of creation, the stronger his faith becomes.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139385 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
19 Oct 2012 - 2:45 PM

At school my physics master was an Anglican clergyman!

(Nasty piece of work too. Lol! Wink)

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