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Is it true or Photoshopped?


Jestertheclown
6 6.6k 242 England
23 Jul 2014 6:41PM
. . . and it's still unable to tell that my Kentwell Hall shot was genuine.

Rather deflates the potential for these high brow applications for it . . . ?

If it can't do the very thing thing that it's supposed to, then I have to agree with those suggesting that it's useless.

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Chris_L e2
1.5k United Kingdom
23 Jul 2014 7:02PM

Quote:it's still unable to tell that my Kentwell Hall shot was genuine.


So what, does it say it was Photoshopped?


Quote:If it can't do the very thing thing that it's supposed to, then I have to agree with those suggesting that it's useless.


But, it can do the very thing that's it's supposed to do, spot potentially modified files. You seem to be under the delusion that the app claims to be able to tell everything about every file and claims to be foolproof.

It doesn't.

Edit, someone messaged me to suggest that you're just being obtuse because of our argument here

I hope that's not the case.
Jestertheclown
6 6.6k 242 England
23 Jul 2014 7:37PM

Quote:So what, does it say it was Photoshopped?

No but it doesn't say otherwise either.
Isn't it supposed to tell us one way or the other?
mikehit e2
5 7.1k 11 United Kingdom
23 Jul 2014 8:50PM

Quote:i
You seem to be under the delusion that the app claims to be able to tell everything about every file and claims to be foolproof.



And I quote from the IZITRU website

Quote:"Free image hosting that can prove your photo is real. "



and further:

Quote: Upload your original, unmodified JPEG image.

We'll analyze your image to certify that it hasn't been edited.

Your image will be hosted on our site with a prominent trust rating.




It does not say spot 'potentially modified' it says 'prove' and 'certify'. With a duck-billed elephant passing the test it clearly does not do what it says.
OK, it may not be perfect, but what it its level of accuracy - 90%? 80%? 30%?. Without this knowledge any output is meaningless.

I am pleased you posted it as a point of interest, but in having done so you do seem to be caught in an unnecessary cycle of justification.
Chris_L e2
1.5k United Kingdom
23 Jul 2014 8:58PM
Thanks Mike Smile It's the word "can" in your quote that some people misunderstand.

Quote:having done so you do seem to be caught in an unnecessary cycle of justification

I don't mind that one bit, as long as people continue to say that there are no uses for the app or, like jester, think it only does A or B, I'm more than happy to point out that they are wrong.
Jestertheclown
6 6.6k 242 England
23 Jul 2014 9:05PM

Quote:like jester, think it only does A or B

I don't think it does A or B.

I know for a fact that, with my image, it does neither.

Meaning that, where my image is concerned, it becomes useless.
Chris_L e2
1.5k United Kingdom
23 Jul 2014 9:24PM
Yes I see your point, if you were to upload a photo to CNN or the like taken of some newsworthy incident the software doesn't have your camera in its database and would not be able to certify the image as straight out of camera. That doesn't mean it would report it as having been manipulated, at a loss as to how you can't understand that.

On the image you said was straight out of camera you got the report back "inconclusive" - an image you said you'd converted from raw was reported as "potentially having been worked upon".

So, where your image is concerned, to you in that situation the app becomes useless. Sadly, during those times when you can't remember things about your own files and you start uploading them then the app can only help you slightly. (There are those who might think you're not really meant to use if for your own images but for when you're curious about ones taken by other people)

What you need to get your head round is that there are other people on the planet and if they find a use for the app, which many have done, then the app is not without its uses. Only without use for those like yourself.
Jestertheclown
6 6.6k 242 England
23 Jul 2014 9:34PM

Quote:That doesn't mean it would report it as having been manipulated,

It doesn't report it as being manipulated.
It doesn't report it as not being manipulated.
It doesn't know what's going on.
There's a clue in the title of this thread; "Is it true or photoshopped?"
It can't tell.
I can get my head around that.
mikehit e2
5 7.1k 11 United Kingdom
23 Jul 2014 9:50PM

Quote:Thanks Mike Smile It's the word "can" in your quote that some people misunderstand.




'Can' = possibility
'Prove' = no doubt
If it claims 'can' then there is no 'prove'.
If there is no 'proof' then what service is the product serving?

It is rather like the old press discussion - the public finding it interesting does not mean it is 'in the public interest'. Similarly because people use it does that mean it is useful?
Chris_L e2
1.5k United Kingdom
23 Jul 2014 11:01PM

Quote:I can get my head around that.

You can't even find your way around this website so understanding concepts like how something which isn't 100% accurate could still be useful is likely to be too difficult for you.

Quote:If it claims 'can' then there is no 'prove'.

Rubbish, it says "can prove" a common phrase that's understood by all, as in "a dna test can prove you aren't the father". And, like those tests, as well as things like polygraph tests (which also are not 100% accurate but give indications rather than cast iron guarantees) some people have learned to make use of them Smile

Quote:because people use it does that mean it is useful

Yes it does.
mikehit e2
5 7.1k 11 United Kingdom
24 Jul 2014 8:05AM

Quote:
Rubbish, it says "can prove" a common phrase that's understood by all, as in "a dna test can prove you aren't the father".



So when it says

Quote: Photo Contests

Leave no doubt that your incredible shot was captured in-camera.


Then I really have seen a genuine picture of a duck-billed elephant? WOW!
keithh e2
11 23.4k 33 Wallis And Futuna
24 Jul 2014 10:35AM
So I uploaded this . It tells me it can't make a decision. It is an unaltered image.

As someone with a lot of experience in this field, the fact that it can't decide on one image makes all it's decisions open to question and therefore useless for anything other than a bit of fun.
altitude50 e2
10 2.3k United Kingdom
24 Jul 2014 10:48AM
Erm, so if you take a photograph with a good camera, add something or change part of the image, print it at high quality, then photograph the print?
keithh e2
11 23.4k 33 Wallis And Futuna
24 Jul 2014 10:52AM
Photographs of prints are the easiest thing to spot. It should be able to spot the anomalies in that without any trouble.
24 Jul 2014 11:10AM
It all just adds to this absurd attitude/belief that anything that has been modified/edited (no matter how minor the adjustment is) makes the image somehow inferior, and the photographer a fraud who is somehow trying to deceive.

You put a watermark on your image - Its a fake! You crop an image - Fake! You remove a dust spot - Fake! You take a mediocre shot and dont edit it and somehow you turn into a modern day Ansel Adams. Hmmm

No, wait, all Ansel Adam's works are fake too, because they have some amount of editing/cropping in them... Just as well the app wasnt about in his day, haha

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