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ErictheViking
ErictheViking e2 Member 1124 forum postsErictheViking vcard Scotland102 Constructive Critique Points
16 Mar 2013 - 3:37 PM

Good advice Alistair and it corroborates the feelings of other contributing members, however I'm not sure it will make a difference as comments made by other members have just been ignored and replaced by more questions asking the same questions over looking for the impossible answer.

Erik

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16 Mar 2013 - 3:37 PM

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Jestertheclown
16 Mar 2013 - 3:42 PM


Quote: I would probably pay up to 175 for framed print of it if I had a bit of wall that needed filling.

I couldn't possibly have a piece of wall that needed filling that badly.

You'd have to pay me 175 to hang that . . .

. . . in the toilet.

alistairfarrugia
alistairfarrugia Critique Team 1158 forum postsalistairfarrugia vcard Malta86 Constructive Critique Points
16 Mar 2013 - 3:51 PM

Eric, there's always hope! He's in his right to ignore our replies of course. I just chipped in to state my views and answer the questions as I saw fit. I don't expect Tony to reply or agree or anything - but if he does, then I'm looking forward to see the reply. Discussion never hurt anyone. Smile

iancrowson
iancrowson e2 Member 4204 forum postsiancrowson vcard United Kingdom128 Constructive Critique Points
16 Mar 2013 - 4:43 PM

He may be back, he's must have started over 20 threads in the last few weeks.
Bren
Thank you, point proven, one man's art is another man's rubbish.

TonyCoridan
16 Mar 2013 - 6:38 PM


Quote: Hi Tony,

Could I ask you to (since most of you have gone through my PF) tell me if you think I have an eye for the art of photography: your honest opinion, please.


First off, what is, in your opinion, the ART of photography? What would classify someone as fitting within the category of "having an eye for the art"? My 2 cents is that art is a subjective issue - some people like abstract work for instance, whilst others loathe it and prefer classic stuff. There are millionaires that pay for such art all over the world, and then there are those who denigrate this practice. Should a painting, or a photo, sell for millions? My 2 cents is, who am I to say? The price we attach to something reflects our affection and/or established appreciation towards the piece of art. If there's someone willing to pay 4.3 million for a photo by Gursky for instance, does it mean that Gursky is good and that he "has an eye for the art", or does it mean that there are people out there who appreciate his work and are willing to pay for it? It might sound like I'm reducing this a lot, but to me, it all boils down to that. You cannot please everyone all the time. Some work just captures people's hearts and minds, and some doesn't. That goes for all kind of art. When your work manages to capture people's heart and mind though, you might be transmitting something to them that is "priceless", metaphorically speaking, and for such stuff, people to tend the pay in bucketloads. After all, attaching a price to something deemed invaluable isn't an easy practice.

Now, questions 1 - 4:

1. what do you think is good
2. what do you think is bad
3. where must I improve
4. do you think I have a particular style?


I'll answer with another question, and I might be repeating: What IS IT that you want to achieve? What message do you want to put forward? What emotions do you wish to convey to the viewer? Before you express this, it would be presumptuous of us to say this is good or this bad, at least in terms of subject matter. What I can comment upon is technique though, and that relates to your 5th question too.

5. what do you think of taking photo of 'beautiful woman' on the street (some are portraiture format). Just to add many of the people I take photo of I do go and talk to then afterward; sometimes they pose for more photos, but I don't upload posed photos as I prefer candid expression.

I would personally not classify taking street photos with a long-zoom as street photography proper. To me street photography should have more context in the picture, and the person would be interacting or reacting to the context around him/her. Just presenting portraits taken from far off is more akin to candid portraiture and I can see why people compared this to voyeurism rather than street photography. I would personally not like it if a stranger was zooming in on my face with a long lens. It would make me feel as if I was being spied upon. I do understand that it is not ILLEGAL, and I agree one has every right to do so if that's the law, however it's not just what's legal/illegal that makes people feel comfortable or uneasy - it's also what people feel is appropriate that affects us. I think for most, being shot without prior permission with a long-zoom lens from far away would seem inappropriate and bordering on invasion of privacy. Regardless of it being legal, it wouldn't be appreciated in the first place.

And on this last point, I shall conclude my statement and tie with my earlier comment - appreciation. I do like some of your pictures, but I also feel a bit concerned and uneasy watching them, as they feel a bit too intimate and close for me to feel like I'm taking in the person and the context: I'm merely taking in the person. Seeing them up-close. And I don't think the mood that puts me in is particularly positive. I admit it feels like I'm intruding when I see some of your pictures. Could be just me though! Wink

When it comes to candid shots, I prefer to go for images that show some sort of interaction or behaviour that is universal. That way, the picture is less about the person (typical portrait) and more about the behaviour (ergo, the mood put forward). I have a couple of pictures in my portfolio that I will now link to and I'll ask you to let me know what you think of it. I'm confident that we might agree to disagree on whether these are good or bad, and I will understand it 100% if you don't like my work. It would simply prove my earlier point that after all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You can't please everyone all the time, but just make sure that your work always pleases you. If it does, and others like it too, then you have the art of transmitting a good feeling to someone else, and that transcends the art of photography - whatever that means to you.

These are some of the images where my focus isn't the person, but the action/behaviour that has a sort of universal theme:
http://www.ephotozine.com/user/alistairfarrugia-208361/showcase/photo/father-and...
http://www.ephotozine.com/user/alistairfarrugia-208361/gallery/photo/motherly-lo...
http://www.ephotozine.com/user/alistairfarrugia-208361/album/candids-7057/photo/...

And this is my candid's album.
http://www.ephotozine.com/user/alistairfarrugia-208361/album/candids-7057

By all means, I do not want to imply that this is good work. It's just my work. I like it. Some others do too, and some don't. And I'm perfectly fine with that. I also think I still have a ton of work to do to improve in this department. I'm simply providing these links to further stimulate discussion on candid work and explain my point better. What do you think?

Good luck with your work!

Alistair

I noticed that you've taken some photos of children NOT ILLEGAL but on my do's and don'ts thread someone advised me not to do so. Unless those children in your photos are family members.

Don't get me wrong; I'd find taking pictures as yours far more easier than try and get closer for facial expression. You like what you and I like what I do. May be what I currently doing doesn't conform with the traditional rules of street photography. But, it's still photography. As you said, can't please everyone; people bound to have difference of opinion and choice.

Just to mention, although, it may look like it, it's not an invasion of privacy. I started a thread on the law bit and I have read about it.Smile

Thank for using your time to address my queries!

Tony

TonyCoridan
16 Mar 2013 - 7:20 PM

@Alistairfarruhia:

I don't see how this is not street photography: this is not an intrusion of privacy

Thanks,

Tony

jadus
jadus e2 Member 2921 forum postsjadus vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
16 Mar 2013 - 7:46 PM

2-sam-0179.jpg

Last Modified By jadus at 16 Mar 2013 - 7:46 PM
alistairfarrugia
alistairfarrugia Critique Team 1158 forum postsalistairfarrugia vcard Malta86 Constructive Critique Points
16 Mar 2013 - 11:59 PM

Hey Tony, glad you replied. I can see where you're coming from re: the children photos and I respect your opinion. As I said, I only pointed that picture out to emphasise the point I was making - the picture's subject is the children's interaction with each other, not their face or features. In my view, capturing the picture with the intention to show the innocence of play at that age transcended the "tabboo" of shooting children. That's me though.

Your reply seems to imply that you have grasped what I said, that is, "beauty's in the eye of the beholder". You will never have full conformity and established hard facts of what constitutes good or bad work. We all have our tastes and preferences so don't be surprised when people don't like your work. Moreso, don't be surprised that people can't tell you what's wrong and what works with your picture unless you clearly explain what you intended to convey and what settings you used, etc. If you want critique, welcome it with open arms and make it easy for others to give it to you.

In respect of the above therefore, asking people to "tell (you) if you (...) have an eye for the art of photography" is a bit over-the-top, as what is artistic for you might be a no-no for me, and vice-versa. Case in point, you would have probably not taken that picture with the kids for example. Whilst I would never zoom in on someone with my telephoto whilst trying to get street shots. Regardless, I respect that you like shooting pictures like that, and indeed that could be your style, so to speak. You're likely also very good at it if you're aware of the limitations you're faced with when taking such pictures and take steps to correct them. Regardless though, don't expect people's critique to be all praise all the time. For some, your work might be inappropriate and more aptly described as something other than street photography. Just like for you, taking pictures of children is on the DON'T list. That's the beauty of photography I believe, it's freedom of expression with pictures. So long as we don't hurt each other and depict people in a state that denigrates them, then who are we to stop it, in whatever form it takes?! Smile Ultimately, it's not about the label or genre the picture falls in, it's more about what the picture says to different people that gives it its worth. That's how I see it anyway. And that's why the same picture may be worth nothing to someone, and 4.3 million to another. C'est la vie! Wink

TonyCoridan
17 Mar 2013 - 12:15 AM


Quote: Hey Tony, glad you replied. I can see where you're coming from re: the children photos and I respect your opinion. As I said, I only pointed that picture out to emphasise the point I was making - the picture's subject is the children's interaction with each other, not their face or features. In my view, capturing the picture with the intention to show the innocence of play at that age transcended the "tabboo" of shooting children. That's me though.

Your reply seems to imply that you have grasped what I said, that is, "beauty's in the eye of the beholder". You will never have full conformity and established hard facts of what constitutes good or bad work. We all have our tastes and preferences so don't be surprised when people don't like your work. Moreso, don't be surprised that people can't tell you what's wrong and what works with your picture unless you clearly explain what you intended to convey and what settings you used, etc. If you want critique, welcome it with open arms and make it easy for others to give it to you.

In respect of the above therefore, asking people to "tell (you) if you (...) have an eye for the art of photography" is a bit over-the-top, as what is artistic for you might be a no-no for me, and vice-versa. Case in point, you would have probably not taken that picture with the kids for example. Whilst I would never zoom in on someone with my telephoto whilst trying to get street shots. Regardless, I respect that you like shooting pictures like that, and indeed that could be your style, so to speak. You're likely also very good at it if you're aware of the limitations you're faced with when taking such pictures and take steps to correct them. Regardless though, don't expect people's critique to be all praise all the time. For some, your work might be inappropriate and more aptly described as something other than street photography. Just like for you, taking pictures of children is on the DON'T list. That's the beauty of photography I believe, it's freedom of expression with pictures. So long as we don't hurt each other and depict people in a state that denigrates them, then who are we to stop it, in whatever form it takes?! Smile Ultimately, it's not about the label or genre the picture falls in, it's more about what the picture says to different people that gives it its worth. That's how I see it anyway. And that's why the same picture may be worth nothing to someone, and 4.3 million to another. C'est la vie! Wink

I understand and agree with you. Taking children photos is not in my don't list; someone suggested in one of the thread. I've seen many travel photos with children in them, nothing wrong, it's just how one society view it to others.

I do take my children photos a lot.

And if I travel in a friendly country where their minds have not been corrupted and have not developed paranoia about being photograph, I'll take photos of all ages.

I think taking photo of someone is paying that person a great compliment; that have been my experience: people have asked me to take their photos in the street. Some people, I think feel valued and exist/noticed and worth of being photograph: that's my view based on my experience.

I won't stop taking photo and continue to experiment because some here think my photos are not so good. I don't do it for them!

I'll count you as one of my EPZ friend and may be you can offer some support as and when needed.

Thank you,

Tony

alistairfarrugia
alistairfarrugia Critique Team 1158 forum postsalistairfarrugia vcard Malta86 Constructive Critique Points
17 Mar 2013 - 2:43 AM

At your service Tony. If you'll persist with using your long zoom on your candids, may I humbly suggest you try and get a bit closer and avoid using the full zoom? Zoom Lenses typically go softer (in terms of sharpness) at their longer ends. You'll get better photos simply by zooming out a little bit and walking a bit closer. Otherwise, keep doing what you like best, so long as it's legal and it's appreciated. You don't have to please everyone dude. Just keep in mind that when you ask for critique or comments, some might be harsh and others might be pleasing. You have to accept both and go on taking pictures! Smile Take care!

TonyCoridan
17 Mar 2013 - 2:48 AM


Quote: At your service Tony. If you'll persist with using your long zoom on your candids, may I humbly suggest you try and get a bit closer and avoid using the full zoom? Zoom Lenses typically go softer (in terms of sharpness) at their longer ends. You'll get better photos simply by zooming out a little bit and walking a bit closer. Otherwise, keep doing what you like best, so long as it's legal and it's appreciated. You don't have to please everyone dude. Just keep in mind that when you ask for critique or comments, some might be harsh and others might be pleasing. You have to accept both and go on taking pictures! Smile Take care!

I recently bought the 24-70 f2.8 N lens; I think this may solve the problem!Smile

Cheers!

alistairfarrugia
alistairfarrugia Critique Team 1158 forum postsalistairfarrugia vcard Malta86 Constructive Critique Points
17 Mar 2013 - 8:28 AM

From what I've read, that's a superb lens!

iancrowson
iancrowson e2 Member 4204 forum postsiancrowson vcard United Kingdom128 Constructive Critique Points
17 Mar 2013 - 10:24 AM

knotcol-r-.jpg

Last Modified By iancrowson at 17 Mar 2013 - 10:25 AM

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