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Judging images

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paulbroad
paulbroad  781 forum posts United Kingdom854 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2007 - 5:08 PM

I was a PAGB judge for many years and I've been looking through gallery pictures on Photozine.

I have to say that either many people never give negative comments, or they refrain from commenting at all on pictures that require some statement to help the photographer.

Criticism should be constructive, but we must also be careful not to have a mutual admiration society - i have seen these in operation at many clubs at which I used to judge.

It is important to pass constructive comment where necessary - otherwise, why show.

How do others feel

Paul

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Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315401 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2007 - 5:12 PM

[quote]mutual admiration society[quote]

Each to there own, thats why we have a special critique gallery Smile

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110294 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2007 - 5:13 PM

Lead by example Paul! Smile

I try to be as objective and constructive as possible with my critiques, even when passing less favourable comment on images previously "mutually admired".

It is the only way any of us can improve

Coleslaw
Coleslaw e2 Member 913403 forum postsColeslaw vcard Wales28 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2007 - 5:24 PM

good to see you are doing it, Paul.

Morpyre
Morpyre e2 Member 91622 forum postsMorpyre vcard Wales8 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2007 - 5:34 PM

i don't like to give a negative comment because it isn't advantagous to the person and only makes them feel down

what i prefer to do is pick up on the positives and then give advice by suggesting what i would personally do if the image was my own.

that way the person can either take on the advice and adjust the image accordingly or simply appreciate how i see it but stick with their own creation.

admiration societies make me sick - yes that is worded rather harshly but it is how i feel - a public image site like epz should be a wonderful place to share photography amongst fellow photographers in a happy, friendly atmosphere without bias - by all means be friends with other members but don't create groups specifically to enhance favour and stats for certain members photographs creating unfair disadvantage to anyone who isn't "in the clique" with those biased people.

though when i see an image with 200+ clicks, my scepticism side kicks in because in reality it is most likely closer to 20 - 30 genuine clicks because most of the amount is "favoured friends" regardless of whether the image is liked or not by that "friend".

years ago my father and i were members of a local photography club but we left because every single competition always had the same winning photographs year after year - new members had no chance at all even if they were very impressive.

Simon_Palmer
18 Aug 2007 - 5:39 PM

I struggle to criticise considering myself an amateur. However, if a shot as genuine problems, ie blown sky or too dar ketc I do try to mention it. Always say it in the nicest possible way. To be fair several have made 'negative' comments on my shots and I learn all the time from them.

I struggle more to praise people, get tired of saying top shot, good comp etc. To compliment is sometimes harder.

Simon

SteveCharles
18 Aug 2007 - 5:43 PM


Quote: Criticism should be constructive

Paul, I don't think the negative comment you left on one of my images recently was particularly constructive, in fact I think it was bordering on insulting.

Don't get me wrong, I welcome constructive critique and appreciate that many of my shots don't have broad appeal, but please practice what you preach..

Steve

csurry
csurry  129230 forum posts92 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2007 - 5:51 PM

Fight, fight!!!

Think with that comment Paul had consigned your image to the "does not conform to camera club rules" pile Smile

The problem is that ePZ is not about judging images. It says quite clearly vote if you like the image, not vote because it is

1) inspiring
2) technically competent
3) different
4) ad infinitum

Everyone is qualified to say why they do or don't like an image, few choose to do so because generally it is not what a lot of the posters want to hear.

I think Paul is going to ruffle some feathers and it will be interesting to see.

However, having recently witnessed a number of images (100+) that according to the individuals photographers "do well for me on the circuit" - only one image did I wish I had taken myself

So I think that says I think a lot different from CC judges. In particular most were not sharp, a few badly printed, but mostly they were uninispiring and conformist to a style.

Last Modified By csurry at 18 Aug 2007 - 5:52 PM
Coleslaw
Coleslaw e2 Member 913403 forum postsColeslaw vcard Wales28 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2007 - 5:55 PM


Quote: only one image did I wish I had taken myself


ahhh...that must be mine then...:-p

I shall leave now so that I won't see your reply, Cheryl..lol.

Last Modified By Coleslaw at 18 Aug 2007 - 5:55 PM
csurry
csurry  129230 forum posts92 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2007 - 6:03 PM

Hmm Cole - I'm sure if I had seen your pics printed out it would in fact be two




























Is there a smiley for fingers in throat?

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew!

fauxtography
18 Aug 2007 - 6:03 PM


Quote: Paul, I don't think the negative comment you left on one of my images recently was particularly constructive, in fact I think it was bordering on insulting.

Not so sure about insulting, but it wasn't constructive. "sorry not for me" is about as constructive as "nice shot" To be fair though Paul is giving out a lot of constructive stuff he must not like you Steve Wink Tongue

I go through spates of critiquing and always try and use the sh*t sandwich approach: Nice comment, Bad comment, and finish off with a Nice comment, not always possible but it's a good way of doing it.

Railcam
Railcam  7477 forum posts Scotland
18 Aug 2007 - 8:01 PM


Quote: though when i see an image with 200+ clicks, my scepticism side kicks in because in reality it is most likely closer to 20 - 30 genuine clicks because most of the amount is "favoured friends" regardless of whether the image is liked or not by that "friend".

Sadly, this is the conclusion I am coming to after viewing some of the submissions. Is it the fabled "click clique"?

paulbroad
paulbroad  781 forum posts United Kingdom854 Constructive Critique Points
19 Aug 2007 - 2:01 PM

Seem to have stirred something up. Sorry to Steve if he thought I was insulting - I've looked at his portfolio and most of it IS for me - but a few, technically excellent though they are, are not, purely on the subject.

For those of you that have never judged a competition rather than individual shots, consider this.

You have 50 pictures in a general subject comp and must pick 1, 2 and 3. How do you do it?

I submit that you first reject everything that does not fit the competition rules and everything that is has obvious technical faults - focus, exposure etc.

Now reject very common subjects that are relatively often seen.

You probably now have 10 pictures left. How do you arrive at 1,2 and 3. You can find little or nothing to knock them for - with different judges any one could be the winner.

The answer is simple, you pick out the one that YOU like best - statements like 'not really for me' do then become relevant - The winner is the shot that you, and only you like best! The second is the one YOU like second best and so on.


Paul

Last Modified By paulbroad at 19 Aug 2007 - 2:08 PM
fauxtography
19 Aug 2007 - 2:31 PM


Quote: statements like 'not really for me' do then become relevant

true, but ultimately it does not tie in to this:


Quote: Criticism should be constructive,

There are lots of threads on here complaining about the "nice shot" or "i like it!" responses. Which while nice to receive are not constructive.

Of course you are swayed by personal preferences when judging, however, do you tell the 7 that you didn't pick: "sorry not for me" and cast it aside?

I'm not having a go Paul, as you've made a lot of good comments in your short time here, but i think Steve was right in his assessment that you weren't being constructive on that shot.

oh and i have judged CC comps...not saying i did it well mind Wink

Last Modified By fauxtography at 19 Aug 2007 - 2:33 PM
JJGEE
JJGEE  96311 forum posts England18 Constructive Critique Points
19 Aug 2007 - 2:38 PM


Quote: but a few, technically excellent though they are, are not, purely on the subject.

Can you explain what you mean by this ?

If it is to do with the epz categories then they can be quite broad in interpretation and sometimes you have to pick one that you think fits best.

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