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gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 92218 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2013 - 11:35 AM


Quote: Democracy is merely one of many possible forms of government, all of which were tried by the ancient Greeks at one time or another and all of which were found to be wanting.

The US does seem to want to ram democracy down the throat of people who find it utterly alien. Afghanistan, for example, has been a feudal society since time immemorial and a few years of enforced democracy is unlikely to change much. I believe that countries need to be allowed to develop at their own pace when their people want the change. Afghanistan does become a problem when it acts as a base for terrorists who attack the West.

Large corporations have been more powerful than countries for about a century. Some years ago, I saw an interesting book about the meeting of industrialists from all countries that took place in Switzerland during WW2. It put a new slant on the progress of the war and explained why no bomb had fallen on any ICI plant during the war. The world's most famous camera and optical factory, the Ica Works in Dresden was untouched although the city itself was nearly erased from the map.

Wise words! Smile
Mind you, I would add that the so -called 'democracy' that the US and UK impose on other countries is not democracy anyway - it's a Western propagandist ploy - a pretence of democracy that is actually all about plundering other nations for their resources or control of their resources. How can something that is imposed be called democracy anyway? Sad
Oh, and before any apologists for the crimes of the West jump up and down in fury, I'm fully aware that there are other nations and cultures that trample on human rights or go to war all time but that is all the more reason why the West should not be such hypocrites, stop stirring up trouble and terrorism - and set a good example.

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27 Apr 2013 - 11:35 AM

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brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 109966 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2013 - 3:55 PM

but, looking on the bright side, the UK is sufficient of a Democracy to let you post your views without carting you off to a Gulag or other pleasant place of incarceration! Wink

llareggub
llareggub  3638 forum posts United Kingdom
27 Apr 2013 - 4:45 PM


Quote: But, looking on the bright side, the UK is sufficient of a Democracy to let you post your views without carting you off to a Gulag or other pleasant place of incarceration! Wink

Carting of to a gulag neither implies the presence or the lack of a democracyTongue

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 109966 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2013 - 4:52 PM

Picky - picky, but its OK, its a Democracy - so you are allowed to say what you want as well Grin

llareggub
llareggub  3638 forum posts United Kingdom
27 Apr 2013 - 4:58 PM


Quote: Picky - picky, but its OK, its a Democracy - so you are allowed to say what you want as well Grin

Being allowed to say allowed to say what you want neither implies the presence or the lack of a democracy Tongue

Hmmm, this could run and run lol Grin

On a serious note despite the fact that the UK is a pseudo democracy it is still possible to end up "doing time" for saying what you want... Possibly more alarming is the fact that it is possible to do time without facing a trial!

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 109966 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2013 - 5:36 PM


Quote: Hmmm, this could run and run lol


Oh no it Can't! Tongue

I've just remembered an old Russian joke about this, its a long time ago but it goes something like:

"Well Sergei, I can prove Britian is a Democracy as I can stand up in public and call Margaret Thatcher a murdering, evil politician"

"Well, said Sergei, by that measure the USSR is an even better Dmeocracy because I could stand on the steps of the Kremlin and say exactly the same thing, and be applauded!" Wink

Last Modified By brian1208 at 27 Apr 2013 - 5:41 PM
thewilliam
27 Apr 2013 - 5:55 PM


Quote: But, looking on the bright side, the UK is sufficient of a Democracy to let you post your views without carting you off to a Gulag or other pleasant place of incarceration! Wink

If you're a police officer who makes a Twitter or Facebook comment about a dead politician, you can get fired. Free speech?

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 92218 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2013 - 6:05 PM


Quote: ...but, looking on the bright side, the UK is sufficient of a Democracy to let you post your views...

True, but does the government take any notice of our views?Sad
Obviously, it could be worse - but of course, that's the point - it's getting worse...Sad
I, for one, didn't jump for joy when Thatcher died - but when Thatcherism dies - that's when I'll jump for joy...
I know...it ain't going to happen any time soon! SadWink
Then again, I never thought a government would attack the disabled while cutting taxes to the rich...Sad

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 109966 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2013 - 7:01 PM


Quote:
True, but does the government take any notice of our views?

Don't be daft - we elect them to represent us, not listen to us! Tongue

(mind you, its probably a bit like this place, there are too many differing but strongly held views for there ever to be a consensus Grin )

StrayCat
StrayCat  1014207 forum posts Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2013 - 10:03 PM


Quote: (mind you, its probably a bit like this place, there are too many differing but strongly held views for there ever to be a consensus Grin )

Yes Brian, but what a dull place this would be without those differing views.Wink

Speaking of differing views, I wonder was Chris_L given a reprieve?

Last Modified By StrayCat at 27 Apr 2013 - 10:04 PM
Evertonian
28 Apr 2013 - 10:14 AM

There is so much good in the worst of us,
and so much bad in the best of us,
that it ill-behoves any of us,
to talk about the rest of us.

Evertonian
28 Apr 2013 - 10:17 AM


Quote: If you're a police officer who makes a Twitter or Facebook comment about a dead politician, you can get fired. Free speech?

Well quite right too. As the police have to be able to keep the peace in demonstrations, whatever the cause, it is only right that they need to be seen to be neutral in such matters.

collywobles
28 Apr 2013 - 10:50 AM


Quote: Mind you, I would add that the so -called 'democracy' that the US and UK impose on other countries is not democracy anyway

You clearly do not like living here in this terrible place and are against anything the UK, US or the West does, so why not emigrate to a country that better suits you then you will be a much happier man. Also you will be able to smugly sit and say "I'm leaving this sick place to all you Capitalists"

Last Modified By collywobles at 28 Apr 2013 - 10:51 AM
gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 92218 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
28 Apr 2013 - 11:50 AM


Quote: You clearly do not like living here in this terrible place and are against anything the UK, US or the West does, so why not emigrate to a country that better suits you then you will be a much happier man. Also you will be able to smugly sit and say "I'm leaving this sick place to all you Capitalists"

If you actually read my posts you would see that I fully recognise the terrible conditions and policies found in other countries.
Anyway, why should I emigrate? I think it is up to people like myself to stand up and demand that the controlling forces in this country make this a better place to live in and that governments be more accountable to the people of this nation as a whole - not just the priviledged few...

It's pointless to argue with individuals like you because you have a different attitude to life and a different value system.
Maybe my views are right for those of us who have empathy and care about society as a whole: Maybe your views are right for those who think in terms of the survival of the fittest few.
I can't see the point in repeating the same old things time after time after time - and frankly I'm getting sick of doing it...Sad

Evertonian
28 Apr 2013 - 5:27 PM


Quote: I can't see the point in repeating the same old things time after time after time - and frankly I'm getting sick of doing it...Sad

Well don't bother to do so as you now seem to realise correctly, that we are all different people and more importantly, entitled to our own opinions. Who can say who is right and who is wrong in a democracy?


Quote: Then again, I never thought a government would attack the disabled while cutting taxes to the rich...

The government's position is quite clear. The money needed for the genuinely disabled will be increased, not decreased.

Last Modified By Evertonian at 28 Apr 2013 - 5:30 PM

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