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gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102286 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
28 Apr 2013 - 6:28 PM


Quote: The government's position is quite clear. The money needed for the genuinely disabled will be increased, not decreased.]

What the government's position is and what they actually do is not so clear...
The fact is that a large number of disabled have already suffered from the unjustified withdrawal of benefits, callousness and/or incompetence of ATOS - there have been a number of deaths as a result of disabled people being wrongly identified as being fit for work: I'm not talking about the odd one or two. How can any real human being condone that?


Quote: Well don't bother to do so as you now seem to realise correctly, that we are all different people and more importantly, entitled to our own opinions. Who can say who is right and who is wrong in a democracy?


Absolutely. We have to respect everyone's right to their opinion: However, we also have to respect everyone's right to be offended..and I'm offended every time someone repeatedly asks me to explain what I would do to rectify our dire economic and social problems: I'm offended every time someone attacks my point of view without putting forward a proper reasoned argument - or twists my opinions around with their sophistry, selects whatever suits their prejudices or preconceptions.
Sorry if this upsets anyone, but I beliieve in straight talk. Smile

Last Modified By gcarth at 28 Apr 2013 - 6:30 PM
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StrayCat
StrayCat e2 Member 1014639 forum postsStrayCat vcard Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
28 Apr 2013 - 7:25 PM

Things have improved a tiny bit over the years though, haven't they;

In his famous Essay on the Principle of Population, published in 1798, Thomas Robert Malthus argued that in accordance with the laws of nature, famine and starvation would weed out the poor, thus alleviating the strain of population growth on modern civilization. He recommended that the underprivileged be prevented from marrying and having children. A father of three, he felt exempt from this proclamation because of his wealth.

I'm really enjoying this book, the Tin Ticket.Wink

Last Modified By StrayCat at 28 Apr 2013 - 7:26 PM
thewilliam
28 Apr 2013 - 7:50 PM

Malthus was a clergyman and a compassionate man so he didn't want the poor to suffer unnecessarily. His essay was intended as a warning.

His principle was a an observation of fact and time has shown him to be right, especially the events in parts of Africa. The population of Ethiopia, for example, has greatly increased after each injection of aid to the point where food supplies run out and starvation afflicts the people once more.

In the past, many migrations have been driven by over-population and impending starvation. Unfortunately there's nowhere for the poor Ethiopians and Somalis to go except the UK and other countries with a lax immigration policy.

Here in the UK, we've avoided the Malthus effect after about 1880 because we adopted birth control, which is the only real alternative to mass starvation.

Last Modified By thewilliam at 28 Apr 2013 - 7:55 PM
collywobles
28 Apr 2013 - 9:21 PM


Quote: and I'm offended every time someone repeatedly asks me to explain what I would do to rectify our dire economic and social problems:

OK! You tell what you would do to rectify the economic situation.

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102286 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
28 Apr 2013 - 10:15 PM


Quote: Here in the UK, we've avoided the Malthus effect after about 1880 because we adopted birth control, which is the only real alternative to mass starvation.


Absolutely. I think it is plain wrong to do nothing about the ever-increasing world population.
There are those optimists who say the world's population isn't too big and that there's enough food and resources to go round - if the rich countries consumed less.
I find this impossible to accept because there is no way the rich countries are going to change their ways any time soon. I also think that over-population increases social problems through the need for increasing bureacracy and general difficulties in maintaining law and order etc. - I think the running of a society becomes more inefficient and indeed less caring if it expands too much.

StrayCat
StrayCat e2 Member 1014639 forum postsStrayCat vcard Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
29 Apr 2013 - 7:13 AM

I think people are pretty much of the same opinion as you two about birth control. I can't say I remember the last time I heard someone say that the world is not over-populated by humans, I believe it's a given. I also believe that more is being done today to help alleviate the situation than ever before, but as with most global undertakings, it's a monumental task. I don't have any facts or stats, because frankly I haven't given it much thought.

My thoughts on mistreatment of the poor has always been; they will eventually turn on you. Put yourself in the situation of being unable to feed your children; is there anything you wouldn't do?

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102286 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
29 Apr 2013 - 8:55 AM


Quote: My thoughts on mistreatment of the poor has always been; they will eventually turn on you. Put yourself in the situation of being unable to feed your children; is there anything you wouldn't do?

Yep - it's only a question of time - History repeating itself...Up the revolution - bring it on! Wink

mikehit
mikehit  56298 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
29 Apr 2013 - 11:10 AM


Quote: History repeating itself...Up the revolution - bring it on

And one thing that keeps repeating itself is that the people who take over after a revolution are not the people you want in charge. And given the premise that the revolution will be based on "...is there anything you wouldn't do" (to quote Straycat) I definitely would not want them in charge. I'll take my chance with this bunch.

collywobles
29 Apr 2013 - 11:30 AM


Quote: Yep - it's only a question of time - History repeating itself...Up the revolution - bring it on! Wink

It will never happen.

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102286 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
29 Apr 2013 - 11:48 AM


Quote: It will never happen.

You may be right - and maybe just as well if there isn't one. But seriously, something has to give...


Quote:
And one thing that keeps repeating itself is that the people who take over after a revolution are not the people you want in charge. And given the premise that the revolution will be based on "...is there anything you wouldn't do" (to quote Straycat) I definitely would not want them in charge.





Well, I agree with you...which is nice...now and again Wink :


Quote: I'll take my chance with this bunch.



...well except for that last bit perhaps...Wink

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
29 Apr 2013 - 11:48 AM

A revolution requires something to be revolted against. Wink

Most people are OK'ish with their lot (I won't go so far as to say contented). Whether they are in work, retired or drawing benefits.

mikehit
mikehit  56298 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
29 Apr 2013 - 12:01 PM


Quote:
I'll take my chance with this bunch.

...well except for that last bit perhaps...Wink

FWIW my comment was more about the political caste than any specific party. Maybe we can change them.....[finger crossed]...

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102286 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
29 Apr 2013 - 1:37 PM


Quote: FWIW my comment was more about the political caste than any specific party. Maybe we can change them.....[finger crossed]...



Well, yes. What it boils down to, I suppose is that revolution solves nothing and ultimately we have to aim towards harmony of some kind. I think somehow we have to get enough rich and powerful people on side to support the cause of the deprived or relatively deprived sections of society, regardless of which government is in power.
I still think building more houses - economical houses - should be an absolute priority - whatever it takes. I also think less talk of growth and more about efficiency would be welcome.
Is it not a question of achieving the right balance between personal aspiration and co-operation?
O.K., I know, I'm living in some sort of fantasy world...WinkSad

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
29 Apr 2013 - 1:44 PM

Keeping the global population down would be a good idea. Any ideas on that would be welcome - leaving side Armageddon! Wink

thewilliam
29 Apr 2013 - 2:37 PM

I remember reading that the big 4 supermarkets had estimated the UK population as 80 million, which is about one-third higher than the census figure. The government has already admitted that it has no idea how many immigrants are in the country and the supermarket figure is for business planning purposes so I suspect that it won't be far from the truth.

Would it be too late to send a few home and at least mitigate our over-crowding?

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