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Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139430 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jul 2012 - 1:42 PM


Quote: it is impossible for it to be double, its just that the M4/3 sensor sees less of the projected image...

Agreed but the "magnification" effect is the same.

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27 Jul 2012 - 1:42 PM

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Philh04
Philh04  955 forum posts
27 Jul 2012 - 1:51 PM


Quote: it is impossible for it to be double, its just that the M4/3 sensor sees less of the projected image...

Agreed but the "magnification" effect is the same.

LoLTongue But there is no 'magnification', you are right it is just a visual effect you are just seeing a section of the whole, it would make my job a lot easier if a smaller sensor did in fact increase magnification...

Seems Ade's thread has been a little highjacked... Smile

Phil

Last Modified By Philh04 at 27 Jul 2012 - 1:52 PM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139430 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jul 2012 - 1:58 PM

So you would agree that a macro lens which, at closest focus, provides a life-size image on FF will produce double life size on a 2.0 crop sensor? Smile

oldblokeh
oldblokeh  3815 forum posts United Kingdom
27 Jul 2012 - 2:06 PM


Quote: So you would agree that a macro lens which, at closest focus, provides a life-size image on FF will produce double life size on a 2.0 crop sensor? Smile

Only in a parallel universe with different laws of geometry. Tongue

Philh04
Philh04  955 forum posts
27 Jul 2012 - 2:12 PM

I want to go to this parallel universe Wink

We all know that it will be 4x lifesize Tongue I am currently working at between 30 to 40x magnification it would make it so much easier if a smaller sensor increased the mag...

Cheers

Phil

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318443 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jul 2012 - 2:28 PM

I've created a quick illustration - does this help?
sensor-magnification.jpg
There is no magnification increase when using a different sized sensor, just a crop factor
Then when the photo is viewed it's magnified.

Last Modified By Pete at 27 Jul 2012 - 2:28 PM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139430 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jul 2012 - 2:38 PM


Quote: Then when the photo is viewed it's magnified.

Exactly the point I am making Pete. It's the end result that matters.

Thanks. Smile

Philh04
Philh04  955 forum posts
27 Jul 2012 - 2:45 PM


Quote: Then when the photo is viewed it's magnified.

Exactly the point I am making Pete. It's the end result that matters.

Thanks. Smile

But we were talking about sensors, I have to work to specific magnifications so obviously the magnification on the sensor has little relationship to the final file I produce.... In reality when using a smaller sensor you will be further away to get the same framing anyway......Tongue

Coffee time then see if I can get home through the Olympic crowds....

Last Modified By Philh04 at 27 Jul 2012 - 2:47 PM
Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318443 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jul 2012 - 2:47 PM

not how I read it CB...


Quote: so you would agree that a macro lens which, at closest focus, provides a life-size image on FF will produce double life size on a 2.0 crop sensor?

you could take the shot on the left of my illo and magnify it by using the cameras LCD zoom magnification feature, or print out with a crop. The fact is the lens isn't magnifying the image - it's as a result of the cropped sensor.
Other wise you could say any lens will produce 4:1 ultra macro shots....and just crop them dramatically.

mikehit
mikehit  56450 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jul 2012 - 2:48 PM

Which is exactly the same as taking a picture with 'full frame' and cropping it 50%. But with the MFT the camera saves you the job of cropping.

In fact what is more important than sensor size is pixel quality and noise as to whether the image is more presentable.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139430 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jul 2012 - 3:00 PM


Quote: Which is exactly the same as taking a picture with 'full frame' and cropping it 50%. But with the MFT the camera saves you the job of cropping.

In fact what is more important than sensor size is pixel quality and noise as to whether the image is more presentable.

There is an old article on the Bob Atkins site which demonstrates why cropping a FF image does not always produce as good a result as capturing a larger image on the sensor in the first place. All depends on comparative number of pixels, as between 'FF cropped' and the cropped sensor, and the quality of the technology, of course.

tomcat
tomcat e2 Member 95916 forum poststomcat vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
29 Jul 2012 - 8:53 PM


Quote: There is an old article on the Bob Atkins site which demonstrates why cropping a FF image does not always produce as good a result as capturing a larger image on the sensor in the first place

I have watched this thread without commenting until now, but you are spot on CB

It is either a macro or it is notWink

Ade_Osman
Ade_Osman e2 Member 114521 forum postsAde_Osman vcard England36 Constructive Critique Points
30 Jul 2012 - 1:22 AM


Quote: Seems Ade's thread has been a little highjacked...

C'est la vie guys, I'm learning stuff here, so it matters not........Nothing wrong with some healthy debate! Just for a change it's about something photographic Grin

Ade

Newdevonian
31 Jul 2012 - 6:02 PM

[quote]I knew all this all the time Wink My 10 year old 90mm Tamron shows 1:1 on the distance scale, so on my D7000 I will get 1:1.5

No.... No.... No.... It will be 1:1, a crop sensor does not magically increase the magnification.....

Ok Follow this logic:

My Tamron is set at 1:1. I have focused on a steel rule graduated in millimetres. With an FX camera the steel rule will be size for size, presumably registering 36 mm graduations across its sensor width. With a DX camera you will only get ~24 mm graduations across the sensor width. Therefore a DX camera gives an enlargement ratio of 36/24 or 1.5.

BTW I never mentioned magnification, but enlargement ratio.

I am happy to hear contradictory logic.

mikehit
mikehit  56450 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
31 Jul 2012 - 6:21 PM

Pete's photos of the bee says it better than any words. It shows why people mean different things about 'magnification'.
By the way, the image bottom right is what someone will also see in their viewfinder which only reinforces their (IMO technically incorrect) view that APS-C sensors 'magnify the image'.

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