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masterpiece yes or no

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youmightlikethis
youmightlikethis e2 Member 111003 forum postsyoumightlikethis vcard Scotland
16 Apr 2013 - 7:41 PM

bat out of hell album by meatloaf was is this a music masterpiece or just another rock album

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16 Apr 2013 - 7:41 PM

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arhb
arhb e2 Member 72142 forum postsarhb vcard United Kingdom67 Constructive Critique Points
16 Apr 2013 - 8:02 PM

I put it in the same catagory as Bohemian Rhapsody and Stairway to heaven(et all) really - different but the same.

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade  1014714 forum posts England216 Constructive Critique Points
16 Apr 2013 - 8:16 PM

big part of my childhood - was all over the place when I was a kid...

we used to put it on, the whole thing, in pubs - just as we were leaving... each song is really long... would have done everyone's head in after a while!

there are a lot worse albums out there - and a few tracks are proper sing along classics

saltireblue
saltireblue Site Moderator 43598 forum postssaltireblue vcard Norway23 Constructive Critique Points
16 Apr 2013 - 8:18 PM

It goes in the category Great First Album, Shame About the Follow-Ups.

parallax
parallax e2 Member 5110 forum postsparallax vcard United Kingdom
17 Apr 2013 - 7:57 AM

Bombastic and overrated.

Todd Rundgren did a better job on XTC's Skylarking.

keithh
keithh  1022760 forum posts Wallis and Futuna29 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 9:00 AM

How can an album that has become as well known as this one, third best selling album of all time, a part of the rock music language, not be a classic. Even if you don't like it, it has to be a classic.

Its easy to dismiss meat now for what he has become (great bloke though) but don't forget the imapct that this big sweaty over-dressed semi-operatic had - he was at the time unique, Steinman's music was unique, the associated artwork etc - it was and is a classic.

mikehit
mikehit  46144 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 9:13 AM

the problem with this question is that people put it in the context of everything from classical to blues to jazz etc. .

Bombastic? Yes
Do I like it? enormously.
Masterpiece? I don't care. In the grand scheme of the pantheon of music, definitely not. In the context of heavy rock music, I would say yes. Most people would not consider Damien Hirst's pickled half cow a masterpiece, others would say it is a masterpiece (conceptually at least) in the context of the modern art movement.

LVanDhal
LVanDhal  1126 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 9:44 AM

The sheer sweeping unashamed theatricality of Bat out hell, the verging on operatic vocals of Mister loaf, the genius that is Jim steinman,how can anyone dispute its place in music history as a classic album of all time status.
What makes Bat out of hell a genuine classic is that it combines the essential factors from so many diffing musical genres, in to one entire album and manages to present it with out ultimately confining it self musically to one genre.
That is the brilliance of the album and perhaps why there could be no real follow up to match it, Steinman and Mister Loaf peaked with the Bat out of Hell Album and ever after, through both undoubtedly talented ( and in steinmans case I would say cursed with genius along the same lines as Phil Specter) could only go on to do something either entirely different which would and sometimes did lead to undeserved criticism by comparison of later work to Bat out of Hell, or rehash the same idea, bit of a trap for them both really and one neither deserved and no wonder they fell out for a period of time, the pressure being to match something that was unmatchable.
Bat out of Hell, is the ultimate combination of Musical, Rock, Opera, Theater,Jazz, spoken word, Pop, choral, deliver as a performance piece and yet also works as a stand alone Album that is acessable to fans or non fans in that you don't have to understand Mister Loafs or Jim Steinmans back catalogue of work to work out what the Album is really all about.

arhb
arhb e2 Member 72142 forum postsarhb vcard United Kingdom67 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 10:24 AM

What's interesting about the comments above is that Bat Loaf - single or album just aren't rated by the general public, in the same way as other iconic pop music is.
Whan people talk about epic bands and songs of the 70's, Bat Loaf isn't on the tip of their tongues - simple as that Smile

mikehit
mikehit  46144 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 10:37 AM

Who do you mean by 'the general public'?
You can't deny that Bat Loaf was a milestone in rock music and is the 5th biggest selling album of all time. :


Quote: Bat Out of Hell has sold an estimated 43 million copies globally (15 million of those in the United States),[1] making it one of the highest selling albums of all time. In the UK alone, its 2.1 million sales put it in 38th place. Despite peaking at #9 and spending only two weeks in the top ten in 1981, it has now clocked up 474 weeks on the UK album chart, a figure bettered only by Rumours by Fleetwood Mac - 478 weeks. In Australia, it knocked the Bee Gees off the number #1 spot and went on to become the biggest-selling Australian album of all time for several years. It is now second on the list. Bat Out of Hell is also one of only two albums that has never exited the Top 200 in the UK charts;[citation needed] this makes it the longest stay in any music chart in the world, although the published chart contains just 75 positions.

(Wikipedia)




I am not saying he is equal to Led Zeppelin or The Who, and he may not be on the tip of people's tongues (how many are?), but when you mention Meat Loaf the 'general public' know who you mean. Similarly, the Bee Gees would not be on the tip of my tongue (ie unprompted) as a 'classic group' but if you mention them I can recall many songs they sang and wrote.

arhb
arhb e2 Member 72142 forum postsarhb vcard United Kingdom67 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 10:48 AM

If you were to do a high street survey in any major UK town, asking random individuals what are their top 5 tunes of the 70's, statistically I would bet that Meat Hell wont be in there.
That is what I mean by general public.

Mike, anyone can write stuff for wiki - it doesn't mean much imo

Last Modified By arhb at 17 Apr 2013 - 10:49 AM
mikehit
mikehit  46144 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 11:07 AM


Quote: Mike, anyone can write stuff for wiki - it doesn't mean much imo

What an easy cop-out. All those hard numbers will be supportable.


Quote: If you were to do a high street survey in any major UK town, asking random individuals what are their top 5 tunes of the 70's, statistically I would bet that Meat Hell wont be in there.

Nor, I would guess would a hell of a lot of other classic tunes/artists.

LVanDhal
LVanDhal  1126 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 11:35 AM


Quote:

Mike, anyone can write stuff for wiki - it doesn't mean much imo

Anyone can write anything ...and have it published in any form they care to....so how do you verify any information ?

arhb
arhb e2 Member 72142 forum postsarhb vcard United Kingdom67 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 11:56 AM

I didn't mean it as a cop out - just that there may be better places to source statistic from. I have fallen flat in a debate before after quoting info from wiki, which turned out to be mis-information.

If Meatloaf had sustained their success in the long term, with a string of hit albums instead of the 'also ran' tracks that were released in an attempt to relive bat...., they would be more memorable -
and get played regularly on shows like radio 2, that play popular music from yeteryear day-in-day-out.
They don't.

arhb
arhb e2 Member 72142 forum postsarhb vcard United Kingdom67 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 11:58 AM


Quote: Mike, anyone can write stuff for wiki - it doesn't mean much imo

Anyone can write anything ...and have it published in any form they care to....so how do you verify any information ?

Find the record co or publishing co website - that's what I would quote from.

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