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Ade_Osman
Ade_Osman e2 Member 114521 forum postsAde_Osman vcard England36 Constructive Critique Points
4 Oct 2012 - 6:21 PM

You're more than likely right Denny in what you say.....

AdeGrin

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4 Oct 2012 - 6:21 PM

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monstersnowman
5 Oct 2012 - 12:05 AM

I think the present system works fine. if it ain't broke ....

I don't see how the 'most improved' could work as you would need to monitor everyone's progress or rely on many people to nominate ports that showed improvement - presuming we nominated strangers as much as friends and presuming we reviewed ports fairly, evenly, broadly and consistently. Also we know some will stoop to any level (inc image theft) to gain positive praise on sites like this so any member could quite easily drip feed a quickly improving set of images from their portfolio and especially start with the most appalling shots to maximise improvement. I have seen this manipulation many times in areas where improvement was rewarded as much as quality etc .. T is a good idea in small, well monitored groups but I see it being unworkable in a huge community or at best just hit and miss.

Last Modified By monstersnowman at 5 Oct 2012 - 12:05 AM
Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315324 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
5 Oct 2012 - 1:21 AM


Quote: I don't see how the 'most improved' could work as you would need to monitor everyone's progress or rely on many people to nominate ports that showed improvement

Pass it on to CB for use in the junior section Smile

Its actually not a bad thought, especially if a few seasoned members are round up to act as mentors, but drop the award.

Last Modified By Paul Morgan at 5 Oct 2012 - 1:23 AM
arhab
arhab  243 forum posts Indonesia2 Constructive Critique Points
5 Oct 2012 - 1:58 AM

Maybe a distinction like in RPS?

StrayCat
StrayCat e2 Member 1014789 forum postsStrayCat vcard Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
5 Oct 2012 - 7:57 AM

Think about it; at least 95% of the membership have no chance of ever being considered for a serious award recognising quality in photography, such as an EC, it's a fact, and there's no point in beating around the bush. So, what do we have? An award system designed for at most, 5% of the membership. Not nearly fair in my opinion, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Now we have a little game going called VS, designed for an even smaller portion of the membership. Come on folks, wake up! While the top 5% of the members have there silly little games and pat each other on the back, 95% of us are stuck with the most flawed and meaningless award system in existence in our chosen hobby on the web! The reason I started this thread wasn't to flood the site with more awards, it was to try and get you to see how the people who are responsible for this site operating today, financially, are supporting the sport of the tiny minority that gets virtually all of the recognition on here. The gallery is a wasteland. You could put your best photo ever on here and have it seen by only half a dozen people before it disappears forever into the dead archives.A few people try to make a go of it, but for the most part it's a pointless excercise. I have recently been posting in the gallery, and viewing the images of others, and, to be honest, it's depressing folks. I feel so sorry for the people that are plodding along with hopes of better things down the road, and all I see is more of the past, more of what has led us to the latest farce to be dumped on us to keep us in line. When are we going to get something with some substance for everybody? This thread is a waste of time, it's not worth the effort, because all we're ever going to get is the same old, same old, so shut up, and be happy.

SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 64428 forum postsSlowSong vcard England29 Constructive Critique Points
5 Oct 2012 - 8:11 AM

I hear what you say StrayCat, but how many of us have the time to look at everything in the gallery and comment. Do you?

And much of it you can skip over as being holiday snaps or just plain awful. You can't mentor every single uploader. Many of us do go through the gallery daily, and Pete has to do it every day whether he wants to or not, but even he only clicks on a very small minority. Some of the Team don't even do that so you can't blame ordinary EPZers for overlooking stuff.

But I have to say, having looked at other sites this is probably the best by way of inclusion. And it's what you put in too. You can't expect the world to come to you, you have to put in the effort to get recognition and get yourself noticed. Perhaps if more newbies used the forums or blogs they'd get their names known and out there. (I use the universal "you" here).

Perhaps, when a new person signs up, they could get a shortish personal PM from one of the Team explaining about the votes/comments, forums and blogs, with links showing them where these things are (as it's often not obvious), and encourage them to use all of the site and not just upload to the gallery, sit back and wait.



PS: I see you like butterflies. Some nice pics there. Do you ever click and comment on other people's similar shots? Smile

Last Modified By SlowSong at 5 Oct 2012 - 8:16 AM
CaptivePhotons
CaptivePhotons e2 Member 111546 forum postsCaptivePhotons vcard England2 Constructive Critique Points
5 Oct 2012 - 8:14 AM

Denny, do you ever stop bleating about this site? I do not think there has been a feature implemented that you haven't poured scorn on. I'm surprised you're still here.

Last Modified By CaptivePhotons at 5 Oct 2012 - 8:21 AM
StrayCat
StrayCat e2 Member 1014789 forum postsStrayCat vcard Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
5 Oct 2012 - 8:18 AM

You're wrong cap. Another one sucking up.Smile

PS: I'll leave when I'm kicked off the site, not before. And the last thing I am is a bleating sheep, take a look at yourself.Wink

Last Modified By StrayCat at 5 Oct 2012 - 8:22 AM
SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 64428 forum postsSlowSong vcard England29 Constructive Critique Points
5 Oct 2012 - 8:35 AM

Where's Harry Hill when you need him. Grin

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318442 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
5 Oct 2012 - 9:50 AM


Quote: Come on folks, wake up! While the top 5% of the members have there silly little games and pat each other on the back, 95% of us are stuck with the most flawed and meaningless award system in existence in our chosen hobby on the web!

I appreciate your views about EC's - and they're not meant to be easy to get or it would be meaningless, like if every actor or sound crew member got an award for their contributions to every film made. It would just devalue something that is meant to show the very best (and they're not elite - anyone can get one). But and due to the fact people felt that one person's view (mine) wasn't good enough (for whatever reason) we have, over the years, tried to bring in different methods to show recognition and less single view approach. Readers Choice, User Awards, Guest Editor Awards - all can work in their own way and all have been criticised highly. Nothing will work for everyone, but we have now got all the main pictures selection options covered, apart from as you say the more unusual aspects such as most improved or best beginner photo etc which are harder to determine. But as I say if someone wants to be champion and make something work feel free to go ahead and suggest.

mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
5 Oct 2012 - 9:58 AM


Quote: Think about it; at least 95% of the membership have no chance of ever being considered for a serious award recognising quality in photography, such as an EC, it's a fact, and there's no point in beating around the bush. So, what do we have? An award system designed for at most, 5% of the membership.

Surely that's inevitable? Awards, to have any meaning, will be achievable only by a minority of photos posted to the gallery. That's not unfair, it's simply the nature of the beast. Where I begin to agree with you, though, is that there's a certain statistical inevitability that the better known photographers in our midst are more likely to get attention in a crowded gallery, simply because they're better known. It's difficult to break out of anonymity simply because the galleries are so busy and few people have time to sift through the gravel to find the gold.


Quote: Now we have a little game going called VS, designed for an even smaller portion of the membership.

I think it's fair to refer to it as a game, and it doesn't appeal to everybody - almost nothing can do that! But to my mind, this is one idea which might help us to "discover" good work by other photographers. Why? Because the system is intended to pick photos at random from the whole gallery (how many photos is that now, and how many more being added daily?) and present them to the viewer. This is bound to uncover a few choice nuggets, in my opinion.

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318442 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
5 Oct 2012 - 10:10 AM


Quote: Where I begin to agree with you, though, is that there's a certain statistical inevitability that the better known photographers in our midst are more likely to get attention in a crowded gallery, simply because they're better known.

Not the case in my selection process but maybe in the viewing process...ie you see the same names and think oh them again...and miss the fact that six others in that ten you looked at were unknowns winning their first award. Like when you buy or start looking at specific models of car...you suddenly become more aware of those cars on the road.

Quote: This is bound to uncover a few choice nuggets, in my opinion.

Totally agree.. they may not be award winners either, but you will find some very interesting new photography (including all those genres you never realised you actually like because you never went into that category of the gallery)

Last Modified By Pete at 5 Oct 2012 - 10:10 AM
mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
5 Oct 2012 - 10:16 AM


Quote: Not the case in my selection process but maybe in the viewing process...ie you see the same names and think oh them again...and miss the fact that six others in that ten you looked at were unknowns winning their first award.

Pete, what I meant was that for the average member trawling the gallery, there's a relatively low probability of spotting something which stands out simply because of the turnover rate of new posts to the gallery, and many of us not having time to work our way large numbers of posts. If a photographer's work becomes known, they can also be picked up through "Connections" or just by the cognoscenti checking their profile periodically.

Last Modified By mdpontin at 5 Oct 2012 - 10:17 AM
SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 64428 forum postsSlowSong vcard England29 Constructive Critique Points
5 Oct 2012 - 12:07 PM

I set my viewing of the gallery to one day's uploads. Usually around 8 pages.
I rarely miss any that way and will drop in during the day when passing to have a look.

StrayCat
StrayCat e2 Member 1014789 forum postsStrayCat vcard Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
5 Oct 2012 - 5:04 PM

Thanks for your input folks. Pete I appreciate you commenting in a civil tone, even if I had a bit of a rant earlier.Tongue Best ignore me.

Denny

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