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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014842 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2013 - 4:19 PM


Quote: Can you imagine a group of plumbers in a pub discussing spanners?Yes. They do.

My dad's a plumber and never mentions his spanners to us or his peers.... I've worked with him, they're usually discussing beer, birds and footy


Quote: A truly great photographer which we all aspire to be , knows their equipment inside out and can afford the best that can be bought ( a better camera inevitably makes more opportunities ) has great people skills and probably most important of all is a top class businessman. Thas my view anyway !

interesting...

I'm not sure knowing your kit inside out is that important really - so long as you can compose, focus and get the exposure right, that's all a "great photographer" needs? Everything else is peripheral

Afford the best....? Assumes that all photographers are wealthy.... many I know are not. So probably not a statement I'd agree with.

Makes more opportunities.... again, that's down to "being in the right place" rather than the camera.

Great people skills.... definitely an advantage for some, if not most photographers. The oddballs tend to shoot wildlife as they can't handle humans that well Wink

A top class businessman.... this assumes that a great photographer must earn money/grow a business. Not really the case though it is? Lots of great togs have no need for business skills.

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16 Jan 2013 - 4:19 PM

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keith selmes
16 Jan 2013 - 4:43 PM

Football and page 3 would usually win out over tools as topics of conversation (!), but I don't recall a tradesman or service engineer who never discussed tools. You can't work without them, and you can't just use any old junk.

Last Modified By keith selmes at 16 Jan 2013 - 4:43 PM
ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014842 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2013 - 4:53 PM

you must look like the kinda guy with an interest in tools....

I've worked with many tradesmen and tools never really came up, unless I specifically asked.

e.g. once mixing plaster with mesh, I asked for a drill and whisk....

lemmy
lemmy  71941 forum posts United Kingdom
16 Jan 2013 - 6:19 PM


Quote: I've worked with many tradesmen and tools never really came up, unless I specifically asked.

My experience too.

pulsar69
pulsar69  101611 forum posts United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2013 - 7:03 PM

everyone is entitled to an opinion and nothing I have heard from anyone hear makes me think any differently , a professional photographer ( that is someone who makes money from taking photographs whether it be portrait landscape wedding journalism etc ) has to have business skills , to think otherwise is nonsense.

Knowing your equipment inside out puts you ahead of someone who doesn't and gives you the confidence to get on with the job in hand and focus , and having the best camera although not necessary is obviously going to be advantageous to someone who already has the eye. I cannot understand this mentality of people bleating on about not needing the latest , its just talk that comes from people who cant afford it - I am one who cant afford the latest camera every year, if I could I would buy it - as it would have a postive effect on how i can perform in certain environments. If thats not the case then why are we not all walking around with old a Canon 450D or similar ? because we want to buy better kit and improve.

This site is all about improving , the reviews are all about the latest kit to buy , and theres a whole host of adverts to your right back up my point , everyone wants to buy stuff - the fact you cannot at this moment justify or afford it doesnt mean you have to pretend you dont want it because we all know YOU DO and the MRS said NO ... ....Tongue

Last Modified By pulsar69 at 16 Jan 2013 - 7:04 PM
janeez
janeez e2 Member 61195 forum postsjaneez vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2013 - 7:07 PM


Quote: Very true Paul , Clients do pick up on colour , clarity , focus and composition - its human nature and one of the many reasons someone will book one photographer over another , whether the photographer has yet realised that is another matter .


You have completely missed my point. As I said those things matter to us and so they should. How many brides and grooms tell you they want this or that composition, the colours, the sharpness etc? They don't, well not us anyway. They want this family shot or that particular location. It's afterwards that they realise they have something special when we give them all the things we consider to be important as well. One recent booking we had was because the groom loved the morning images we took and the candid shots of guests at the reception.

Recently I looked at my wedding album. It will be 30 years old this year! Now I loved all those pictures because of everyone in them. Looking at it now, many are just slightly off focus. The composition isn't up to much either. Some are too dark and the few reception pictures leave much to be desired. Am I disappointed? No, I still love looking at them because of the people in them. Would I be happy to give them to a couple? Not on your life!!! Wink

janeez
janeez e2 Member 61195 forum postsjaneez vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2013 - 7:13 PM


Quote: This site is all about improving , the reviews are all about the latest kit to buy , and theres a whole host of adverts to your right back up my point , everyone wants to buy stuff - the fact you cannot at this moment justify or afford it doesnt mean you have to pretend you dont want it because we all know YOU DO and the MRS said NO ... ....

Fortunately I am the MRS and I will be treating myself to something new a bit later in the year. Just need a camera shop to stay open long enough to go and buy it!!! Wink

pulsar69
pulsar69  101611 forum posts United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2013 - 7:19 PM

lol ! this is true , I have just come back from Blockbuster where I have for years got my films from , some rather disappointed staff there Sad and when they are gone i wont be streaming online will just watch the tv films and record them instead so the internet wont gain anything there from me.

lemmy
lemmy  71941 forum posts United Kingdom
16 Jan 2013 - 7:24 PM


Quote: justify or afford it doesnt mean you have to pretend you dont want it

The problem with always upgrading equipment is that you never get to be instinctive with the camera if you keep changing it.

When I started work in Fleet Street you used the cameras the firm bought you. They were the same as all the other photographers used and yet some photographers stood out head and shoulders above others. Why? Talent, an eye for a picture, the willingness to work harder than the rest, a more persuasive personality but above all a love of and interest in images and a burning desire that people should see your work.

The cameras had nothing to do with it, they still don't and they never will.

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014842 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2013 - 7:51 PM


Quote: everyone is entitled to an opinion and nothing I have heard from anyone hear makes me think any differently , a professional photographer ( that is someone who makes money from taking photographs whether it be portrait landscape wedding journalism etc ) has to have business skills , to think otherwise is nonsense.

yeah - that's true if yer on about professional photographers

great photographers aren't all professionals - and ironically - not all professionals are great photographers Wink

As for the kit...

I worked with a 5D for 6 years, well, a few of them actually - never needed anything more expensive. It became part of me really, just instinctively knew what to do with it.

I got the 5D2 eventually as natural wear and tear was taking its toll on the 5D's - little things like, changing ISO and viewing photos, have changed position - so that's taking a bit of getting used to... still ALWAYS change the FEC before the ISO...

I "could" have got the 1Dx... or even the 5D3... just prefer to have that cash for other things, marketing, a new car when the Focus dies etc. etc. etc.

I had Canon 580EX2's - but used them all in M mode when i got into Strobist.... they've all smashed and broken on jobs.... replaced them with cheap manual flashes as I don't need the ETTL for my work. And watching 400 smash is far worse than 45 Wink I find them far easier to use and work faster now I'm not delving into menus to change settings...

A couple of examples anyway Smile

Last Modified By ade_mcfade at 16 Jan 2013 - 8:36 PM
paulcookphotography

Unfortunately advertising and marketing gets into peoples heads and they think they need the latest (insert product here). Id doesnt mean they need it, nor does it mean it will make their life (or in this case photography) any better. They may feel better and get some kind of idea that they are improving, but rarely is it the camera thats making the difference.

As mentioned above, knowing your camera and being instinctive with it will always better the guy next to you with the latest bit of kit he hasnt yet got comfortable with. I work with three different bodies, and have back-ups of two of them. I have not updated/upgraded to a newer body in quite a while (since i got a D700 and D3) as i havent seen any justifiable advantage in replacing cameras that are working perfectly. The money i could have spent on getting the latest/best kit has gone on lenses, lighting, travel, etc which (and call me silly for thinking this) help me improve and develop my photography. I was taught to push the limits of your kit before upgrading, not the limits of your wallet. Spending 4k+ on a new camera will not get me a shot of a wild lion (for example), but it would pay for a photography safari. The money 'saved' also means i dont have to struggle so hard to claw the money back.

Could i afford a new body every year? Yeah, but at the cost of missing out on other things. Thats a pretty handy business skill to have (or business sense, i guess).

As far as adverts go (on here), well for one they help pay for the site. People do need to replace kit for various reasons, and some are just coming in to photography and unsure of what is out there. But i guess thats confusing the amateur/professional issue again

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014842 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2013 - 8:38 PM

Actually - I'm finding processing takes a lot longer with a newer camera due to bigger files

so upgrading is a retrograde step - depending on your view point Wink

thewilliam
16 Jan 2013 - 9:49 PM

THere are plus and minus points with all upgrading.

As a five year old, I thought the installation of the bathroom was a definite retrograde step. In the winter time, we took a bath in a freezing cold unheated bathroom rather than in front of the fire in the old tin tub.

pulsar69
pulsar69  101611 forum posts United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
17 Jan 2013 - 12:04 AM

Once again we are going round in circles , if you are not savvy enough to realise that an advance in technology will allow you to advance the love you have for photography and advance into new areas then so be it , thats your loss.

The best guy is the one who knows his kit has the eye and has the best kit ...

And yes we have all worked with lesser kit , we all do and so do i , that doesn't mean I do not realise that better kit will help me better my photography too. I too am making sure my business is healthy and i can meet my clients needs before i invest again , but when i can i will.

What on earth is wrong with striving for better things ???

paulcookphotography

As i already said, there has been no significant increase in technology or features that would justify me replacing my current camera bodies, or replacing the kit i use (with the exception of adding a couple of lenses (which is somewhat different)

If i was to be handed a more up to date (or the best available) i do not believe it would improve my photography. I would record the same style with the same approach. The only difference would be the amount of megapixels. I am the photographer, not the camera. The camera does not define me, or my style

Thats not to say i cant improve, but that its nothing to do with technology. Over the years since i first picked up a camera i have gone from basic point and shoot compacts and throw-aways, and eventually moved on to film SLRs at school, before progressing to medium and large format and finally digital SLRs. Its been a long time since i looked at a camera in a store and thought 'if only i had that i would be better!'

I think the point was around when i was 15 or so and got my first SLR and attended a photography class at school. That was when i learned to combine photographic knowledge/training with the artistic side i was already developing and some years later i am (like everyone else) still developing.

However, each to their own and if a new camera gives you the emphasis to try something new or the belief that you couldnt have done it before, then its all good. And maybe, just maybe the black box over the shoulder will suitably impress a client (or potential client) to look at your work.

There is nothing wrong with striving for better, i guess its just a case of what is better, and what makes you better?

"The best guy is the one who knows his kit has the eye and has the best kit ..."

Care to comment on what the 'best kit' is then? Just so we can all equally strive towards it

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