Login or Join Now

Upload your photos, chat, win prizes and much more

Username:
Password:
Remember Me

Can't Access your Account?

New to ePHOTOzine? Join ePHOTOzine for free!

Like 0

Me again, weddings again!

Join Now

Join ePHOTOzine, the friendliest photography community.

Upload photos, chat with photographers, win prizes and much more for free!

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2013 - 3:33 PM


Quote: And without jumping to Pulsar's defence, I would say that donig 50 a year sounds like competence to me.

So it may be but I take insults from nobody.

Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links 
18 Jan 2013 - 3:33 PM

Join ePHOTOzine for free and remove these adverts.

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41195 forum posts United Kingdom196 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2013 - 3:36 PM

Handbags at dawn then?

Perhaps if some wedding shooters didn't fire off thousands of shots each job, their kit would last longer and they wouldn't feel the need to 'upgrade' each year when the shutters became unreliable.
Newer cameras might enable you to do something you couldn't do with your old kit, but generally they enable you to do what you used to do more easily.... They make you lazier. Zooms mean you don't have to use your feet, or look for the shot so carefully. High ISO capability enables you to shoot in lower light, but it also means you can be less careful with holding the camera and exposing, as you can now shoot faster shutter speeds. VR means you can get away with slower speeds, and not be so careful how you hold the camera steady.
None of it makes you a 'better' photographer, it just makes it easier to do.

One more thing, the ability to take pictures is definitely second to the ability to do business, in running any business, and reciprocally, you don't need to be that good at photography to be successful. And these days, people are generally more ready to accept lower standard work.

Nick

paulcookphotography


Quote: They use similar skills apart from one major one and that is dealing with pressure , which is what separates those who do and those who talk about doing it. I have just last week completed a 'Trash the dress shoot' for a couple who's wedding I photographed , the differences are immense in terms of freedom of location and time in a TTD shoot . there are no pressures on either the photographer or the couple and that makes the environment and job that much easier.

You decided weddings was not the way you wanted to go ? but are happy to shoot the couple afterwards. That was your choice , but it doesn't give you an insight into running a wedding photography business.

I think you are confusing the post-wedding work i do with "trash the dress". Its a hugely different thing. Some locations have been deep in forests, others on mountain tops or misty glens where you have the pressures (yes, pressure isnt restricted to wedding photography) of time restraints, weather conditions, production costs and many many other things. Not once was the dress intentionally trashed. Far from it. We are talking about the type of shoots you see used in advertising, movies and the likes.

Wedding photography wasnt the area i wanted to work in, no, but i have experience in it. Previous to that i had been a photographers assistant though, and still assist a friend on occasions (you know, supporting your fellow photographers even if they dont do the same work as you). So yeah, i do have a fair insight into wedding photography and the business aspects.

Asides from that side of my work, i do a lot of production work with bands - everything from DOP in video works through to studio/location shoots and album artwork. All with strict deadlines, strict budgets and constraints, not to mention the occasional high-profile client. I also shoot for an advertising agency (lots of pressure there and often shooting total extremes from one job to another). So please, dont believe that only a wedding photographer knows what pressure is.

Last Modified By paulcookphotography at 18 Jan 2013 - 3:50 PM
Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41195 forum posts United Kingdom196 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2013 - 3:53 PM

Weddings are less about pressure than people management, and I think it's unfair to say that portraits are less stressful. The photographer still has to deliver and has to know their kit well to get the best out of it.
Why take thousands of shots if you can achieve it with fewer? Financial constraints had a bearing, but being able to get what you wanted as efficiently as possible was more important. Taking thousands of shots smacks more of hope than efficiency. Stick it on 'program', whack up the ISO, set any flash to auto ttl and away you go. I know it happens, because I've seen it more than a few times. No matter, PS will sort it out, with auto WB, auto levels, auto contrast, highlight/shadow to retrieve the whites and blacks etc. the camera makes it easier to get a 'useable' shot regardless of the users ability.

janeez
janeez e2 Member 61182 forum postsjaneez vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2013 - 4:24 PM

There seems to be some generalisation that wedding photographers take thousands of shots. Well certainly not in my case! Between two of us we take approximately 16-1800 and that is over a day starting at 9 and finishing anything from 10.30pm to 12.30am dependant on what time the evening reception starts. I would not have enough time to go through "thousands" of images afterwards and as like most wedding photographers I will reduce that 1600 to a third for finished images.

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2013 - 4:29 PM


Quote: Weddings are less about pressure than people management, .

Dead right, in fact I remember reading comments about," some men had vanished to the bar and it took time to get them out". When I managed weddings I ensured that those I needed were where I needed them to be at the correct time. It just requires firstly the initial rapport the developed at the time of booking and for some time afterwards and secondly, the right words to the right people as to when you would need them and where they needed to be. It never failed me, although I suppose to be fair if you are taking thousands of shots some guests will get sorely pissed off and I couldn't blame them for heading for the bar. But that is management of the occasion as opposed to management of the business . That is more important where accounts and VAT are concerned. You do need to know how your business is faring at all times to ensure you remain financially on track and that you haven't launched off buying a BMW when you cannot really afford it. It is no good taking bookings if eventually you go bust and nobody gets their job done.

I am sure that does not happen here but according to my accountant it happens an awful lot. People are excellent at what they do best but cannot manage their business properly and eventually, the bills roll in and there has to be enough cash on hand to settle, particularly with HMRC eg.

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41195 forum posts United Kingdom196 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2013 - 5:16 PM


Quote: There seems to be some generalisation that wedding photographers take thousands of shots. Well certainly not in my case! Between two of us we take approximately 16-1800 and that is over a day starting at 9 and finishing anything from 10.30pm to 12.30am dependant on what time the evening reception starts. I would not have enough time to go through "thousands" of images afterwards and as like most wedding photographers I will reduce that 1600 to a third for finished images.

Ummmm, being pedantic, 1600-1800 is technically more in the thousands than the hundreds.....

I'm not generalising that everyone shoots that many, but TBH I'd rather sift through a couple of hundred good images than nearly two thousand.
Weddings I've done more recently, I've given the couple a maximum of one hundred or so shots. Better a fewer top quality pictures than including fillers...I don't think you really need 600 pictures.

I have also shot all day affairs, and I can honestly say I'm not shooting 100% of the time, in fact aggregated, I'd say not more than a few hours total, and even if shooting one a minute for four hours, that's only 240 shots, double up or triple to ensure you have the shot, gives 720 pictures. For some of the time you aren't shooting but arranging people, which might balance out the times you shoot more than 3 a minute....there must be a lot of time you are shooting the same image multiple times.

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014778 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
19 Jan 2013 - 12:03 AM

Weddings are easy really..... never really understand all the fuss.

janeez
janeez e2 Member 61182 forum postsjaneez vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
19 Jan 2013 - 1:20 AM


Quote: Weddings are easy really..... never really understand all the fuss.

That's where I am going wrong. Wink


Quote: I'm not generalising that everyone shoots that many, but TBH I'd rather sift through a couple of hundred good images than nearly two thousand.
Weddings I've done more recently, I've given the couple a maximum of one hundred or so shots. Better a fewer top quality pictures than including fillers...I don't think you really need 600 pictures.


I really must change everything I do and sack my business partner as he seems to be surplus to requirements.
I will explain to to all the couples we have booked for this year and next that my images are not really very good as I do so many of them so I will just give them about 25 'cos according to people who have never seen our work we do too many and most of them are a bit rubbish.

KevSB
KevSB  101407 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
19 Jan 2013 - 7:43 AM

Janeez, all of the above comments make no difference and in most cases total Rubbish, do what your comfortable with and carry on the way your doing it. As its Obvously working.

the customer is the one voice that counts, the rest irrelevant. if he likes your work he will tell others. If he does not you go out of business. Simples.

I admire you doing them as I don't have the confidence. I'd like to think I could come on here and ask advice when I do, so but as the thread above shows not something that you can do on this which is such a shame.

The fact is friends with cameras are doing more weddings now and those people want help, and this site us losing out on new members due to the large egos on here chasing them off or making them to afraid to seek advice. If someone isn't willing to give positive help I don't understand why they don't just ignore the post rather than give an unwanted opinion.

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014778 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
19 Jan 2013 - 8:38 AM

I'll qualify the last statement - the photography required is easy.

They're fast and furious, often fun and unpredictable, which is where you earn your bucks.

but they generally follow a well trodden script and you can shoot away merrily all day and get your shots - however many you get, style etc. etc. etc. - create your book/album/disc and be on your way

I find creating an image to fit some else's vision and ideas much more challenging - and exciting

paulcookphotography


Quote:
I find creating an image to fit some else's vision and ideas much more challenging - and exciting

My sentiments exactly! Not saying one is better than the other, but for me, i'd rather be creative than repetitive. Which is why when i decided wedding photography wasnt for me, i still took the occasional booking for post-wedding work where i could create a personal memory or 'moment' for my clients that is totally unique to them, rather than just capture moments of their day

thewilliam
19 Jan 2013 - 10:31 AM


Quote: I find creating an image to fit some else's vision and ideas much more challenging - and exciting

Isn't this the basis of professional photography?

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41195 forum posts United Kingdom196 Constructive Critique Points
19 Jan 2013 - 11:22 AM


Quote: I will explain to to all the couples we have booked for this year and next that my images are not really very good as I do so many of them so I will just give them about 25 'cos according to people who have never seen our work we do too many and most of them are a bit rubbish.

I never said that, nor meant it, but if you take 1800 perfect pictures, it must take some sifting to go through them all, and decide which to give the couple, and some processing to process them all. In your case, there are two of you, so I take it you edit your own share, but there are people to there who shoot twice that by themselves.

What I am saying is that for those that shoot thousands of images there are an awful lot of discards, therefore a lot of pictures that aren't up to it, and probably a lot of very similar images with similar mistakes.

If your system works for you, then great, but as you must know, the vast majority of couples don't know exactly what they want (except a couple of particular shots, possibly seen on websites or magazines) until they see what you are offering. Most only have a general idea and leave it to you to suggest stuff, probably based on your previous portfolio, and usually based on conventional ideas of wedding photographs.

pulsar69
pulsar69  101611 forum posts United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
19 Jan 2013 - 4:26 PM

Some good points coming across and hopefully some are beginning to realise that todays wedding photography has little in common with yesteryears so it is really not a fair judgement to make on the basis of having experience of the 'older' style of wedding photography.

Todays b&g would not be happy with 200 shots at all , shots are expected of details of the house the prep the venue down to bottles of perfume earrings cufflinks etc , then a lot of natural caught off guard shots are expected throughout the whole day aswell as the formals ( the easy part really ) , shots of everyone at the wedding at some point , the dance , the speeches , the cake cut , the ceremony , the line up - need i go on ..... It is really quite easy for two people to go over 1000 shots between them even being selective and picking your moments. We end up with as most wedding togs now do over 400-500 shots which are spot on edited and useful ( this includes shots of people all through the day ) and you would not simply discard a shot for a slight technical issue if it had say a relative who didn't appear too often in it ... you have to sometimes take off the photographer hat and think of the shot from the b&g perspective as to whether they would like it or would it mean something to them.

Paulcookphotography, I see where you are coming from with the creativity - creativity is needed during the wedding day too and its not at all repetition in fact no two weddings are ever the same and being creative under pressure and timescales is actually quite difficult, along with trying to keep uncle bob out the shot , keeping the brides mother happy and making the b&g feel relaxed and look natural. I have viewed your work here on EPZ and have to say I am immensely impressed - whereas not all on here who are debating have much to back it up in their pfs or websites - you certainly do and I love urbex photography too myself so can see exactly where you are coming from.

Snows falling hard here now and we have a few weeks off with a couple of preshoots to do and loads of editing but hoping for a good year this year and time will tell if the business is suffering with the recession as some of you will know the wedding photography industy is a year or two behind when it gets hit as people book so far in advance ! But so far on target for this year Smile

Add a Comment

You must be a member to leave a comment

Username:
Password:
Remember me:
Un-tick this box if you want to login each time you visit.