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Megapixel "Penis Envy"

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lawbert
lawbert  71706 forum posts England15 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2012 - 8:48 PM

Heres the Moon taken a couple of nights ago with Siggy 10-20mm at 10mm and a 7d set to small jpeg..No raw...and I would say a 1000% cropTongueTongueTongueTongue

img-9205-2.jpg

Sometimes I wonder if the "Megapixel "Penis Envy" " peeps are purely frustrated Wonkers (I may have got the O confused with an A in WonkerWink) that should have downgraded further and got a good tele lens and bolted it on a d300 or the likeWinkTongue or even bought a t mount and bolted it on the back of a 500 quid telescopeSmileWink

Perhaps the Percieved Envy is a Bank Balance Jobby Opposed to a Photographic Understanding and Knowledge EnvyWinkTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongue

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3 Nov 2012 - 8:48 PM

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cameracat
cameracat  108578 forum posts Norfolk Island61 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2012 - 9:45 PM

Cropping to accentuate a subject, Cropping to change the aspect ratio, Cropping to change the composition.....Seems fair enough....Smile

But deliberately relying on cropping to compensate for not being in the right place, Or not having the right equipment to hand, Is just a get out from doing the job properly..!!! Irrespective of the mega pixels involved....!!!

Some might see it as coming from " The Hit And Miss " school of photography, LOL....Grin ie: Blaze away and crop it into something sensible sort of attitude, Rather than a carefully planned & executed approach......!!!

Still each to his own as they say, ...Chuckle....Wink Not sure where the penis gets involved, Though we can all stab a guess at that I suspect.....Smile Grin Wink

paulcookphotography

I think most wildlife photographers would agree that part of the thrill of getting 'THE' shot is in the tracking/stalking of the animal, and in setting up the shot.

While i do agree that cropping is necessary at times, it is in danger of becoming a bad habit that could in effect 'cheapen' the skill of photography

justin c
justin c  104519 forum posts England36 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2012 - 11:06 PM


Quote: Cropping to accentuate a subject, Cropping to change the aspect ratio, Cropping to change the composition.....Seems fair enough....Smile

But deliberately relying on cropping to compensate for not being in the right place, Or not having the right equipment to hand, Is just a get out from doing the job properly..!!! Irrespective of the mega pixels involved....!!!

Some might see it as coming from " The Hit And Miss " school of photography, LOL....Grin ie: Blaze away and crop it into something sensible sort of attitude, Rather than a carefully planned & executed approach......!!!


I completely agree with that. You see so many images posted on the web, where even as a small jpeg, the quality, or rather, lack of, is so poor that it's clear that the image has been massively cropped. If the deterioration of quality is so noticeable from that then it makes you wonder just how terrible the image would look when printed, even to a modest size.
Cropping to increase subject size, will IMHO, always be a very poor second to composing the shot and/or getting close enough in the first place.








Quote: I think most wildlife photographers would agree that part of the thrill of getting 'THE' shot is in the tracking/stalking of the animal, and in setting up the shot.

Absolutely.

Last Modified By justin c at 3 Nov 2012 - 11:09 PM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2012 - 11:41 PM

We had a lot of controversy on here, a few years back, over a kingfisher shot. Apparently it had been heavily cropped, but some thought a pic of the bird had been copied from somewhere and pasted onto the background. It looked a bit artificial.

Over-cropping is never a good idea in terms of quality, but in terms of subject matter may be justified........... sometimes.

User_Removed
4 Nov 2012 - 5:52 AM


Quote: I think most wildlife photographers would agree that part of the thrill of getting 'THE' shot is in the tracking/stalking of the animal, and in setting up the shot.

I agree with that - it's kind of why we do it isn't it? It's just that with wildlife you are not in the same position as say a landscape photographer whose subject doesn't make a quick escape just as you are setting up the shot, or worse in that brief second between pressing the shutter release and the shutter actuating so that all you get is a blur or nothing in frame at all. The sense of victory when you do get 'that' shot can't be beat, but until you get that opportunity to get "that" shot there are shots that are not totally useless with a bit of judicious cropping.

LenShepherd
LenShepherd e2 Member 62458 forum postsLenShepherd vcard United Kingdom
4 Nov 2012 - 8:50 AM

Deliberate cropping BECAUSE of not being in the right place is something a plan to do in the summer of 2013.
Controversial maybe to some but high MP will help wildlife photographers get pictures "wild and free" that are currently rare outside a studio set-up.
Back in time the local sports photographer with a Speed Graphic and 2 glass plates got "action" shots of the pole vaulter at the top of the pole (the point of least movement) because it was all that could be got with 1950's era equipment.
The modern sports photographer at a football match mainly uses a 70-200 at the end they are at and a 400 f2.8 for the other end, fast AF and if appropriate crops the image.
6 MP is more than enough for the size of many sports magazine publications, 12 MP is enough for a good A3 print, and by the middle of 2013 there are unlikely to be any DSLR's in production with less than 17 MP.
Digressing slightly my wife, a sports fanatic, would be less happy without close up TV of rugby and football - on a large screen TV - based on less than 2 MP capture.
Enter 21-36 MP bodies, a 300 f4, a 1.4x converter, maybe extension tubes, cropping if necessary back to 12 MP - and photographs in flight of any dragonfly becomes possible. "Any" is important. Right now a few male species are inquisitive and will approach a photographer motionless positioned by a pond. After cropping exhibition shots of some dragonflies are possible. Cropping say 36 MP to 12 or 6 MP (depending on size of end reproduction) opens up a new world of photographic opportunity.
Instead of "envy" perhaps more should think about opportunity.
I know everybody cannot afford the latest and greatest but 24 MP DSLR bodies start at under 600. MP for money second hand is going up all the time.
Envy taken to illogical conclusions implies in times gone by nobody should have shot colour film - because it cost more than B&W film.

paulcookphotography


Quote: The sense of victory when you do get 'that' shot can't be beat, but until you get that opportunity to get "that" shot there are shots that are not totally useless with a bit of judicious cropping.

True. but at what point do you try to get the shot (or give up trying)? Lets face it, if someone is out maybe trying to shoot mountain hares in the snow and finds they only have to get half as near as the guy who has packed a longer lens and converter, he is going to take his shot first and leave his mate to it. Or maybe i'm being harsh and he will get as close as possible to reduce the amount of cropping? Who knows. Either way, its a bad habit to get into. Occasionally cropping to get a shot that 'fell into your lap' is fine, but heading outwith the intention of cropping is only cheating yourself.

Incidently, with the money saved in buying a D300 (for example) rather than the D800, it could have been money towards a new (or good second hand) lens. That, mixed with the crop factor of Dx bodies would give you prtty much the same result as cropping out all the wasted pixels on the Fx captured shot

Last Modified By paulcookphotography at 4 Nov 2012 - 10:36 AM
User_Removed
4 Nov 2012 - 9:26 AM


Quote: Either way, its a bad habit to get into. Occasionally cropping to get a shot that 'fell into your lap' is fine, but heading outwith the intention of cropping is only cheating yourself.

I'm sorry but who has suggested this way of thinking? You work within the limitations of your equipment and subject and if a bit of cropping when you get back home makes an OK shot better, that you did your best to get at the time under the circumstances then I'm jolly well going to do it and if you don't like it tough!

FYI all of my photos fall into my lap as such because I go out with camera in hand to see what is out and about. I don't use a tripod, or a hide or do any bribery and corruption in the form of perches, lures, bait or feed. If it's there I get the best shot I can without disturbing any one or anything, and cropping in post-processing is just one of the tools in the box.

(Even the seagull shots I got the other day with chips were unplanned. We were at the beach, camera in hand, had chips, got seagulls, and took advantage of the moment)

Last Modified By User_Removed at 4 Nov 2012 - 9:32 AM
paulcookphotography

It just seems rather pointless to me, and defeats the purpose of composition (while taking the pic), tracking your subject and other standard photography practices. The attitude of 'i do it because i can' just seems lazy to me, but each to their own.

In the same respect, take the pic shown of Jupiter and its moons. Its taken on a high-end camera with a 600mm bolted on, and cropped like hell to show blurry lights. You could easily achieve the same (and better) results with a relatively cheap second hand Coolpix P4500, mount bracket and pretty basic telescope. All of which would set you back under 300. Sometimes 'because you can' doesnt quite equate to using the right tools for the job

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
4 Nov 2012 - 11:32 AM


Quote: Sometimes 'because you can' doesnt quite equate to using the right tools for the job

Very true. Which is why, for most enthusiasts, just one imaging device does not suffice.

User_Removed
4 Nov 2012 - 12:18 PM


Quote: It just seems rather pointless to me, and defeats the purpose of composition (while taking the pic), tracking your subject and other standard photography practices. The attitude of 'i do it because i can' just seems lazy to me, but each to their own.

No its just a tool like any other. And shall I assume you have never cropped a photo for any reason ever?

Every one has their own style and way of achieving the results they want. It's up to each person to use the tools and methods that they a. (in most instances) can afford and b. prefer.

Last Modified By User_Removed at 4 Nov 2012 - 12:20 PM
mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
4 Nov 2012 - 2:46 PM

Whilst I agree with the point that Paul is making, I also sympathise with what Bugs is saying. I can certainly agree that if you go out with all the correct tools for the job, with the intention of getting a particular type of photo of a specific subject, you would surely aim to use those tools to get the best possible result in camera. You wouldn't go with the pre-determined intention of cropping to get what you need. However, as Bugs says, cropping is simply one of the options available in post-processing if for whatever reason you can't get that "perfect" shot. My approach would be much the same - I'd get the best photo that I could with the kit that I have to hand, but since I'm not a dedicated wildlife photographer there's a strong possibility that at least a wee bit of cropping would end up being employed to improve the end result.

User_Removed
4 Nov 2012 - 3:08 PM

saying that one goes out with the intention of taking a less than perfect photo just because you can crop it is as ridiculous as saying one goes out and takes shots that aren't in focus because you can always sharpen them

LenShepherd
LenShepherd e2 Member 62458 forum postsLenShepherd vcard United Kingdom
4 Nov 2012 - 3:42 PM


Quote: Saying that one goes out with the intention of taking a less than perfect photo just because you can crop it is as ridiculous as saying one goes out and takes shots that aren't in focus because you can always sharpen them

I agree - many of us would like to go out with an 80 MP medium format quality because of the better quality 4x3 feet print possible.
Few of us have even tried 80 MP because it is way beyond most budgets.
I do not think any of us go out with the intention of taking an inferior shot by using a 24x36 or cropped sensor body.

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