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Murdered Police Officers

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collywobles
24 Sep 2012 - 2:23 PM


Quote: There have been far fewer examples of innocent people being hanged than there have been of innocent people being murdered by re-offenders. I know it seems a lousy trade off, but the figures speak for them selves.

.. amd your point is 'that its OK to kill someone who is innocent of a crime of murder' !

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24 Sep 2012 - 2:23 PM

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Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 3:08 PM


Quote: There have been far fewer examples of innocent people being hanged than there have been of innocent people being murdered by re-offenders. I know it seems a lousy trade off, but the figures speak for them selves.!

INCORRECT

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 3:09 PM


Quote:
Unless of course you are confusing 'out on license' with 'out on bail'.

I MEAN OUT ON BAIL

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 3:17 PM


Quote: .. amd your point is 'that its OK to kill someone who is innocent of a crime of murder' !

MY POINT IS THAT CONVICTED KILLER SHOULD EITHER BE HANGED OR GIVEN A LIFE SENTENCE FOR ACTUAL LIFE. YOU NEED TO READ WHAT I SAY

But on your point, "Is it right to release a convicted killer so that he can go out and kill more innocent by-standers?"
"Is it fair to allow that or should we accept that the odd (& given DNA it is the odd one) innocent man is hanged (and to be arrested these guys are usually criminals anyway) to save six innocent people being killed by released murderers?

It was always the case that for crimes of passion or similar sort of one off situations that the conviction was reduced to a life term equating to average nine years anyway so the safeguards were always there.

Anyway despite your convoluted arguement, which, by the way is against public opinion, I respect your right to hold that crazy belief, even though you are totally wrong.

mikehit
mikehit  46148 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 3:57 PM


Quote: There have been far fewer examples of innocent people being hanged than there have been of innocent people being murdered by re-offenders. I know it seems a lousy trade off, but the figures speak for them selves.!

INCORRECT

What do you mean 'incorrect'? It's a comment made by you...

mikehit
mikehit  46148 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 4:01 PM


Quote: Unless of course you are confusing 'out on license' with 'out on bail'.

I MEAN OUT ON BAIL

In which case, I return to my comment that if an accused is out on bail the death penalty is irrelevant because he has not been tried yet.
If I am misunderstanding something can you restate what you were saying about being on bail.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139390 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 4:03 PM


Quote: If it was your son/daughter, or spouse/partner or other loved one who had been hanged but later found to be innocent, would an "Oops, sorry!" be sufficient and would you accept the mistake as a fair trade-off for capital punishment?


Quote: ....or, of course, if it were you.

Lol! I'd come back to haunt everyone concerned! Grin

But this question needs to be answered. Would you be OK with seeing someone you dearly love being hanged for a murder it turns out they did not commit, for the 'greater good', as it were. It's an acid test.

If you cannot, hand on heart, say "Yes" to the above then your string 'em up stance is, self-evidently, flawed.

collywobles
24 Sep 2012 - 4:03 PM


Quote: Anyway despite your convoluted arguement, which, by the way is against public opinion, I respect your right to hold that crazy belief, even though you are totally wrong.

Convoluted argument? coming from me! I think you are the odd one out here seemingly to accept that its OK to kill someone who might turn out to be innocent of the crime.

Despite popular support the argument for the death penalty is wrong and as I see it. two wrongs do not make it right. The death penalty is based on revenge which solves nothing. We are a civilised society and to hang/shooot or whatever, someone found guilty of a murder is just not acceptable in todays civilisation, we are above that - whatever they have done. If its wrong for a person to murder someone, then it is just as wrong to kill them in return - it makes us no better than them.

Dying is easy once you have accepted that you are going to die. , its not much more than going to sleep. If you read Pierpoints book and others, most condemned criminals walk to the death chamber quite peacefully not many go there screaming and shouting, so the death penalty in most cases is not so much of a punishment and is certainly not a deterant.

It would be much worse to know that spending the rest of your life in a 8X8 cell is far more difficult, Just think never spending Xmas with your loved ones, never sleeping with your wife, never hugging your children, never holding a grandchild, never going out to bars, resatraunts, etc - no I think the death penalty would be an easier ride.

Last Modified By collywobles at 24 Sep 2012 - 4:07 PM
mikehit
mikehit  46148 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 4:07 PM


Quote: "Is it fair to allow that or should we accept that the odd (& given DNA it is the odd one) innocent man is hanged (and to be arrested these guys are usually criminals anyway) to save six innocent people being killed by released murderers?

Oh, right. It is alright if an innnocent man is hanged because he is probably guilty of something anyway.

So a man has a prior convition for housebreaking and once he is on the system, being hanged becomes an 'occupational hazard'.
An innocanet man is hanged leaving the real murderer free to carry on killing - that is a strange idea of 'payoff'... but I suppose that is not a worry because he will kill again and eventually be caught for that.

And you still have not answered my question: if it was your friend/relative, wouuld you hold the same position?
Your lack of response suggests you are either an internet troll or unwlling to engage in debate.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139390 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 4:54 PM

I don't think Frank wants to answer the question, somehow. I suspect he is not alone amongst the pro-capital punishment brigade. That is to say:

......................it's OK if other people's loved ones get hanged for a murder they did not commit: it's an "acceptable" hazard of the system. But when it comes to your own nearest and dearest, oh goodness me, it's a very different story!

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 5:33 PM


Quote: There have been far fewer examples of innocent people being hanged than there have been of innocent people being murdered by re-offenders. I know it seems a lousy trade off, but the figures speak for them selves.!

INCORRECT

What do you mean 'incorrect'? It's a comment made by you...

Check the facts on the internet, you will obviously be surprised

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 5:35 PM

[quoteAnd you still have not answered my question: if it was your friend/relative, wouuld you hold the same position?
Your lack of response suggests you are either an internet troll or unwlling to engage in debate.
[/quote]

....and I asked you the corollory.They are unanswerable questions but the problem exists "would you rather a murderer be released than hanged, if he is later to kill a relative of yours?"

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 5:38 PM


Quote: I don't think Frank wants to answer the question, somehow. I suspect he is not alone amongst the pro-capital punishment brigade. That is to say:

......................it's OK if other people's loved ones get hanged for a murder they did not commit: it's an "acceptable" hazard of the system. But when it comes to your own nearest and dearest, oh goodness me, it's a very different story!

Total rubbish!

And what may I ask is wrong with being one of the "Either capital punishment or life means life brigade?" That;position is held by the majority of this country's electorate, check your opinion polls before you rubbish that suggestion. Now answer this question before you start at me my boy.

Would you too prefer a murderer to be released after say 10 years and then kill a relative of yours or would you prefer he be hanged rather than let that happen?

As I said, none of you are prepared to either answer that question or engage in serious debate.[epz edit] Really you know why you don't want to answer the question - it is unanswerable and unthinkable - but possible.

Last Modified By Moderator Team at 24 Sep 2012 - 6:10 PM
Jestertheclown
24 Sep 2012 - 5:53 PM


Quote: Would you too prefer a murderer to be released after say 10 years and then kill a relative of yours or would you prefer he be hanged rather than let that happen?

If the wrong person had been hanged in his place, he wouldn't need to wait ten years.

He could do it whenever he felt like it.

strokebloke
24 Sep 2012 - 7:13 PM

Are you listening CB, my boy?
A little respect for your elders, if you please GrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrin

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