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Murdered Police Officers

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monstersnowman
20 Sep 2012 - 12:33 AM


Quote: The push or baton strike did happen but do not in any way amount to manslaughter by any definition of the offence - it's not that simple. the medical report stated that Tomlinson died from his injuries he suffered from the push to the ground. I do apologise that my concern for the death of an INNOCENT man, and the suffering of his family has angered you so much.
by the way, scumbag harwood has been sacked but keeps his pension and wont be working for any police force again.

PC Tomlinson was found not guilty of 'manslaughter' - he didn't get away scott free ... You may think he did but according to the definition of manslaughter and according to the people that actually heard the evidence, he was not guilty. Again you may wish to bypass justice and jail the people you think are guilty on your terms of justice but thankfully we live in a better world.

You say he had a history of this type of behaviour but still kept his job .. When you say 'this type of behaviour' - i doubt they were on a par with or had the same tragic outcome as the Tomlinson case. I have read that the accusations against him were 'repeated accusations' but i only found details of two. Tne accusation of arrest with excessive force that was never looked into as he retired. Then with another force an allegation that was found unsubstantiated. Many many officers have allegations made against them, I did, and it is a hazard of the job to attract malicious, unsubstantiated allegations. I know mine were absolute factless, malicious allegations and were dropped. So basically Harwood, who may or may not well be a nasty piece of work, got back into the Met as he had no substantiated allegations found against him. What happened then that day was subject to a trial in which he was found not guilty. Oh and as you say - the Met have sacked him ... For misconduct.

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20 Sep 2012 - 12:33 AM

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monstersnowman
20 Sep 2012 - 12:41 AM


Quote: Whether i support PC Harwood or not
you support him.

Well done - you think it so it must be true .. Lol Grin

PaulSR
PaulSR  8511 forum posts England
20 Sep 2012 - 12:59 AM


Quote: Oh and as you say - the Met have sacked him ... For misconduct.

all because of the video proof. What have you got to say about the police version of events, which turned out to be complete lies, the one that made out that Tomlinson was the bad guy and the made up medical report which made out that his injuries were nothing to do with the police. the police lied to cover their own arses. And then the video was released so the real truth had to come out. It wasnt just Harwood at Fault, the met police with all involved in the lies and cover up. Its been going on for years, look at the hillsborough report, police forces are corrupt by nature and will lie and cheat to protect themselves. people are getting wise to the fact, but not enough people are as most are ignorant, naive and even stupid. i expect you to defend their actions fully, and why wouldnt you, all coppers stick together, retired or not. but i cant wait to hear what you have to say. im sure, as any good defense solicitor, you will come up with something thats makes their actions to be not that bad at all

PaulSR
PaulSR  8511 forum posts England
20 Sep 2012 - 1:04 AM


Quote: Well done - you think it so it must be true .. Lol

I think it, based on your short story where you defended all of his actions, and didnt condone any of them. LOLLLLL

Last Modified By PaulSR at 20 Sep 2012 - 1:05 AM
monstersnowman
20 Sep 2012 - 1:13 AM


Quote: Well done - you think it so it must be true .. Lol
I think it, based on your short story where you defended all of his actions, and didnt condone any of them. LOLLLLL

I didnt actually defend ANY of his actions - please reread. I defended the system of justice that whilst being imperfect did try him fairly and the 12 good men and true that judged him from the evidence - and far more evidence and in far more detail than you have had access to or read.


OK Paul, you are becoming personally insulting now ... not all coppers stick together at all and I have as much to say about police corruption as anyone as it discredits me even as a retired officer. I was retired unecessarily, despite wishing to carry on in service, as a cost cutting measure, losing a career I loved whilst having a mortgage, car loan and having moved away from my family to join the police. It took me years to get over the fact and as such I owe the heirachy no favours. You can accuse me of anything you wish, within reason, but it doesnt mean I have to listen to it and converse with you politely while you do it. Secondly this thread began as a thread about the tragic loss of two officers at the hands of an alleged violent murderer but as usual, no matter how awful what happened was someone always finds a way to grind an axe in the opposite direction, to risk mixing metaphors. The Hillsborough report is a whole deplorable different kettle of fish and a totally separate event that now the facts have been uncovered have shown that bad things were done and some officers should face criminal charges and I personally hope they do. Next time keep it polite and not personal, especially as you know nothing about me.

Last Modified By monstersnowman at 20 Sep 2012 - 1:29 AM
Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315157 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
20 Sep 2012 - 1:53 AM


Quote: if you werent prepared to kill, then you wouldnt become a soldier in the first place

What a load of tosh

An army full of conscientious objectors wouldnt be much use now would it Paul. Jeeez

Lol I bet if you had it your way the prisons will soon be empty, most people join the forces to learn a trade and see a bit of the world.

PaulSR
PaulSR  8511 forum posts England
20 Sep 2012 - 2:20 AM


Quote: OK Paul, you are becoming personally insulting now

i dont think i was insulting you personally, not intentionally.


Quote: I didnt actually defend ANY of his actions - please reread. I defended the system of justice that whilst being imperfect did try him fairly and the 12 good men and true that judged him from the evidence - and far more evidence and in far more detail than you have had access to or read.

yes but you do have an opinion on harwood, one that you are not showing on hear, but i would like to hear it.

the whole case is based on the video evidence, so its not a case of the jury seeing far more evidence and in far more detail, the video is the evidence. and as you being an ex copper know, that video evidence is more than enough needed for a conviction. if it were committed against a copper then that person would be doing life now, and you know thats true.
. I have never believed a jury is the right way to determine someones fate. you mention 12 good men and true, but they arent. a jury is made up of 12 random people, most people are biased, racist, homophobic, lazy, vindictive, sexist, dishonest, stupid, indifferent, cruel, etc etc, and these same people will decide your fate based on an OPINION. ITS A JOKE. the video showed the attack, the medical report said he died as a result from the attack, so what was it that made the jury find him not guilty. something stinks. So, do you think harwood should be jailed? Will you answer or keep schtum

monstersnowman
20 Sep 2012 - 4:15 AM

Excellent, you think I am, as a retired copper along with every other copper, sticking together with all the corrupt coppers, and jurys are made up of (I quote), biased, racist, homophobic, lazy, vindictive, sexist, dishonest, stupid, indifferent and cruel people (unless they and I agree with you), and you still want my opinion... lol ... like i said - no more conversation, especially with a bigot. You stick with your opinion or discuss with someone else.

Last Modified By monstersnowman at 20 Sep 2012 - 4:21 AM
Garry1956
Garry1956  2 United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
20 Sep 2012 - 7:16 AM


Quote: all convicted murderers should face the death penalty, If they get life what does it cost to keep the b**/--ds behind bars
even though a lot of innocent people will be convicted?

Thats the same old bullshit response thats always quoted! you try losing a family member at the hands of some ********! Try living with it! Living knowing they are being fed watered and educated at our expense while your father rots in the ground, but then I suppose you could rejoice in the fact that after the poor chap has spent a few years behind bars they will be released, maybe you'll be able to meet them in the street and warmly shake their hand and congratulate them for being the reformed person they must surely be. Look at the figures pal how many wrong convictions are there how many re offenders,

mikehit
mikehit  56297 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
20 Sep 2012 - 8:36 AM

]

He's been sacked for gross misconduct.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/17/simon-harwood-sacked-gross-misconduct?n...

As for keeping his pension, dismissal never results in loss of pension rights in any profession

Last Modified By mikehit at 20 Sep 2012 - 8:38 AM
PaulSR
PaulSR  8511 forum posts England
20 Sep 2012 - 8:37 AM


Quote: all convicted murderers should face the death penalty, If they get life what does it cost to keep the b**/--ds behind bars
even though a lot of innocent people will be convicted?

Thats the same old bullshit response thats always quoted! you try losing a family member at the hands of some ********! Try living with it! Living knowing they are being fed watered and educated at our expense while your father rots in the ground, but then I suppose you could rejoice in the fact that after the poor chap has spent a few years behind bars they will be released, maybe you'll be able to meet them in the street and warmly shake their hand and congratulate them for being the reformed person they must surely be. Look at the figures pal how many wrong convictions are there how many re offenders,

Calm your language down, its a fact, innocent people have been executed. Nobody has the right to let that happen. we probably have similar views, all the evil murdering scum in this world should be left to rot and suffer. Deciding who they are isnt always easy.

If i lost a family member in that way i would want to be sure that the right man was convicted. I would be happy for him to be executed if it was 100%clear he was guilty. but thats not always the case. most murder cases are not that clear. i am not on the side of the guilty, i am on the side of the innocent and if 1 innocent gets executed, thats 1 too many

Last Modified By Moderator Team at 20 Sep 2012 - 8:42 AM
mikehit
mikehit  56297 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
20 Sep 2012 - 8:42 AM


Quote: Oh and as you say - the Met have sacked him ... For misconduct. all because of the video proof. What have you got to say about the police version of events, which turned out to be complete lies, the one that made out that Tomlinson was the bad guy and the made up medical report which made out that his injuries were nothing to do with the police. the police lied to cover their own arses. And then the video was released so the real truth had to come out. It wasnt just Harwood at Fault, the met police with all involved in the lies and cover up. Its been going on for years, look at the hillsborough report, police forces are corrupt by nature and will lie and cheat to protect themselves. people are getting wise to the fact, but not enough people are as most are ignorant, naive and even stupid. i expect you to defend their actions fully, and why wouldnt you, all coppers stick together, retired or not. but i cant wait to hear what you have to say. im sure, as any good defense solicitor, you will come up with something thats makes their actions to be not that bad at all

One of the cornerstones of the justice system is that each case is judeged on its merits. Laywers are not allowed to bring up previous convictions. Your comments smack of a justice system with two main struts:
he committed a robbery before therefore he must have committed this one. I dont give a damn about the evidence, he muct have done it. I mean, just look at his history
He lives in sink estate riven with criminals so he must be one as well. Or, he is a copper, some coppers are bent so he must be bent as well

If someone where you work commits robbery, can I prosecute you as one of those **** that broke into my house?

Last Modified By mikehit at 20 Sep 2012 - 8:46 AM
PaulSR
PaulSR  8511 forum posts England
20 Sep 2012 - 8:45 AM


Quote: He's been sacked for gross misconduct.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/17/simon-harwood-sacked-gross-misconduct?n...

So you still say he was treated any differently?

i know he was sacked, i mentioned it last night.

SACKED. BIG FU..... DEAL.
If i assaulted a person and caused his death, and all that happened to me was to get sacked, that would be a result.
cant believe your support for this thug.

PaulSR
PaulSR  8511 forum posts England
20 Sep 2012 - 8:50 AM


Quote: One of the cornerstones of the justice system is that each case is judeged on its merits. Laywers are not allowed to bring up previous convictions. Your comments smack of a justice system with two main struts:
he committed a robbery before therefore he must have committed this one. I dont give a damn about the evidence, he muct have done it. I mean, just ook at his histroy
He lives in sink estate riven with criminals so he must be one as well. Or, he is a copper, some coppers are bent so he must be bent as well

If someone where you work commits robbery, can I prosecute you as one of those **** that broke into my house?

You are starting to make complete sense, i apologise for not noticing it before

mikehit
mikehit  56297 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
20 Sep 2012 - 8:51 AM

I am not supporting him at all. The acquittal centred on the evidence as to whether the push led ot his death. The jury (wrongly in your opinion) decided it did not. One post mortem (now shown to be flawed) said there was no evidence, the second post mortem said it could have been and no more definitive than that.


Quote: If i assaulted a person and caused his death,

And that is the very point you fail to understand. If it could be proved you caused the death, you would be found guilty. If the assult did not cause the death then you would not. Simple, really.


Quote: cant believe your support for this thug.

So anyone who disagrees with you supports the officer? Is that really the limit of your logic?

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