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Murdered Police Officers

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Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139430 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
22 Sep 2012 - 4:29 PM


Quote: For these "people" life imprisonment should be just that LIFE.

If convicted, I would think there'd be a public outcry if the alleged offender didn't get a 'Whole Life' sentence. These are not given very often - and not often enough some would say. Only 3 so far in 2012. Article.

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22 Sep 2012 - 4:29 PM

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chris.maddock
22 Sep 2012 - 4:55 PM


Quote: Freud ? is that a kybard error ?

nah, that's what's known as a Freudian Slip Tongue

chris.maddock
22 Sep 2012 - 4:58 PM


Quote: sky in every cell,

Even those where the inmates haven't nicked the slates ?

Wink

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139430 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
22 Sep 2012 - 6:15 PM

We should worry more about the drugs in every cell........................!

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315336 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
22 Sep 2012 - 6:39 PM


Quote: We should worry more about the drugs in every cell

In every cell, how do you know

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139430 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
22 Sep 2012 - 9:51 PM

I was speaking metaphorically!

coliwolii
coliwolii  569 forum posts United Kingdom
23 Sep 2012 - 9:24 AM

Personally (and this is only based on my own observations) the issue I have with consistency of policing starts at lower level offences and misdemeanors. All too often the police, MP's and high ranking dignitaries seem to get away with lower level crimes. I'm referring to the drink driving, speeding type incidents.
Indeed on many an occasion I've been sitting at home watching the news to hear of the MP for "somewhere" has been stopped for eratic driving and being found well over the legal limit. I will look at the current Mrs P and say "he'll get let off that" and unfortunatley he nearly always does. now I'm not saying he may well "pay" for this in some other way - sacked, removed from post etc. but we all know that if it were you or I we would be looking at a years ban and a fine at the very least.
Now I think theres a further problem to this. If I were the average "man on the street" it would possibly be reasonable to assume that if this is what happens on these "minor offences" it may well happen on more serious crimes? This could well be speculation, but if you want to stop this speculation, you need to stop these high ranking people getting away with minor crimes that Joe Bloggs gets penalised quite heavily for?

The problem with the "twelve good men and true" is that it assumes the 12 good men are getting all the evidence and not having any tampered with or indeed totally witheld by the police or other interested parties, something that seems to be the case in the light of the recent Hilsborough reports?

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Indeed!

Back to the OP - I'm of the "full life term" opinion. I would agree with the death penalty (particularly for instances like this), but unfortunatley (as previously mentioned) we do get these convictions wrong from time to time and for me,one incorrect hanging is too many?

coliwolii
coliwolii  569 forum posts United Kingdom
23 Sep 2012 - 9:42 AM

Something that occurs to me on the reporting of this very sad crime. Part of the reported story doesn't seem to ring true?
It has been said that Cregan deliberatly lured the two officers to the address?

Why would he?

He seemed to be doing quite a good job of avoiding location/capture. Why would he highlight to the police his whereabouts? Why did he then do this terrible deed and then hand himself in a few minutes later, surely if your evil enough to do this, you would carry the spree on?

I think a more likley scenario is the "rival gang" found out Cregan's location and made the bogus burglary call themselves?

Sorry probably getting carried away, but its been bugging me!

thewilliam
23 Sep 2012 - 10:35 AM


Quote: Personally (and this is only based on my own observations) the issue I have with consistency of policing starts at lower level offences and misdemeanors. All too often the police, MP's and high ranking dignitaries seem to get away with lower level crimes. I'm referring to the drink driving, speeding type incidents.
Indeed on many an occasion I've been sitting at home watching the news to hear of the MP for "somewhere" has been stopped for eratic driving and being found well over the legal limit. I will look at the current Mrs P and say "he'll get let off that" and unfortunatley he nearly always does. now I'm not saying he may well "pay" for this in some other way - sacked, removed from post etc. but we all know that if it were you or I we would be looking at a years ban and a fine at the very least.
Now I think theres a further problem to this. If I were the average "man on the street" it would possibly be reasonable to assume that if this is what happens on these "minor offences" it may well happen on more serious crimes?

It does seem that "our people" get away with pretty much everything. One MP, not far from here, was caught fiddling expenses and suspended from Parliament for seven days - a particularly savage punishment. The sum involved was a mere 40k which although just a trifle for one of "our people" but is about two years income for a typical family in his constituency.

The real bottom-feeders also seem get away with most crimes. A skim through the Court pages of the local paper shows that young burglars and muggers generally get a Community Order, whatever that is.

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2012 - 11:02 AM


Quote: The death penalty is not a deterrent in countries that still use it I'm afraid. I disagree with bringing it back for the police only as why should they be any different to other people who are murdered? Ken

It may not be totally a deterrent but it has one excellent feature - you will never get a re-offender.

Far too many murderers have been released on licence only to kill again. What do you and other do-gooders have to say about that when speaking to relatives of the victims? The only alternative to the death penalty is "life meaning life" because you don't get re-offerders there either.

Regarding the minor offences, if we could all afford to employ "Mr Loophole" to defend us we would be aquitted as well, but I notice he is not winning his high-profile cases as often now. Magistrates and the traffic police are geting wiser and being more careful in their dealings with offenders.

Last Modified By Focus_Man at 23 Sep 2012 - 11:07 AM
coliwolii
coliwolii  569 forum posts United Kingdom
23 Sep 2012 - 11:27 AM


Quote: It may not be totally a deterrent but it has one excellent feature - you will never get a re-offender.


Agreed and its one of the biggest PLUS points for the punishment (that and not having to pay for the offenders welfare for the rest of their days).

Unfortunatley the same deterrent (perversly) also provides the biggest MINUS (for me anyway). Not only does it stop them re-offending, it also stops a wrongly accused person from living out whats left of their life?

Thats why, life meaning life, perhaps with some sort of labour to pay for their keep would be my preference?

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2012 - 12:47 PM


Quote: Thats why, life meaning life, perhaps with some sort of labour to pay for their keep would be my preference?

And no interference from the "EU Court of Inhuman Rights" telling us that by putting them away for life inflicts on them iniquitous punishment which affects their human rights, and that we must pay them their 'benefits' in line with what they would receive outside of prison.

What about the rights of the victim's family?

keith selmes
23 Sep 2012 - 3:15 PM


Quote: What about the rights of the victim's family?

For example, ECHR orders government to pay compensation to family of victim.

http://www.ifex.org/turkey/2010/09/21/dink_echr_ruling/

http://www.mjsol.co.uk/library/cases/child-abuse/osman-united-kingdom-1998/

Two cases where the family get better treatment from ECHR than from their national government.
Generally speaking, citizens seem to have more rights under ECHR than under their own national law.
And that does of course include victims, those at risk of becoming victims, and their families

Last Modified By keith selmes at 23 Sep 2012 - 3:16 PM
monstersnowman
23 Sep 2012 - 4:33 PM


Quote: Personally (and this is only based on my own observations) the issue I have with consistency of policing starts at lower level offences and misdemeanors. All too often the police, MP's and high ranking dignitaries seem to get away with lower level crimes. I'm referring to the drink driving, speeding type incidents.
Indeed on many an occasion I've been sitting at home watching the news to hear of the MP for "somewhere" has been stopped for eratic driving and being found well over the legal limit. I will look at the current Mrs P and say "he'll get let off that" and unfortunatley he nearly always does. now I'm not saying he may well "pay" for this in some other way - sacked, removed from post etc. but we all know that if it were you or I we would be looking at a years ban and a fine at the very least.
Now I think theres a further problem to this. If I were the average "man on the street" it would possibly be reasonable to assume that if this is what happens on these "minor offences" it may well happen on more serious crimes?

It does seem that "our people" get away with pretty much everything. One MP, not far from here, was caught fiddling expenses and suspended from Parliament for seven days - a particularly savage punishment. The sum involved was a mere 40k which although just a trifle for one of "our people" but is about two years income for a typical family in his constituency.

The real bottom-feeders also seem get away with most crimes. A skim through the Court pages of the local paper shows that young burglars and muggers generally get a Community Order, whatever that is.

In short, people from the lowest to the highest levels of society get away with things too much. I do think it is unarguable that we hear more about the times when an mp or wealthy person gets away with something .. 'get away' possibly meaning, had a legal technicality, won a case despite apparently being bang to rights etc etc ... And we will rarely hear about the countless offences lesser people get away with because they are not newsworthy but still do happen ALL the time. My experience as a police officer showed not only did we not get away with things but force policy was to ALWAYS PROSECUTE .. Example .. My friend nudged a traffic car coming out of training school, no damage and was almost at a stop at the exit roundabout. Result - prosecuted - it was force policy to always pursue a prosecution in rta's involving police. I had an accident and was interviewed in Intensive Care - the copper said they were only there chasing it up because I was a copper. I was the only person involved and only I was injured. He said had I been a member of the public they would already have dropped it. Example - I was driving my partners car and was a little cautious. A police van pulled up behind me and it was two friends .... They breathalysed me ... And I was negative. But they didn't cut me any slack despite being my mate. I have been involved in arresting an inspector in circumstances where we really would not have pursued a member of the public. Having said that, I don't deny that I am sure some get let off, as do many members of the public.

coliwolii
coliwolii  569 forum posts United Kingdom
23 Sep 2012 - 5:35 PM

Monstersnowman

I do not want to get into a long and protracted argument about the situation, as I feel a bit too much of that has gone on in this thread already. In essence I know what your saying and you can only speak from your own experience.

However I was refering to my personal experience where I have examples also.


Quote: I do think it is unarguable that we hear more about the times when an mp or wealthy person gets away with something

Perhaps the point is they shouldn't get away with it at all. These people, after all are supposed to be pillars of society. Should they not be setting an example?

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