Login or Join Now

Upload your photos, chat, win prizes and much more

Username:
Password:
Remember Me

Can't Access your Account?

New to ePHOTOzine? Join ePHOTOzine for free!

Like 0

Murdered Police Officers

Join Now

Join ePHOTOzine, the friendliest photography community.

Upload photos, chat with photographers, win prizes and much more for free!

New PortraitPro 12 SALE + 10% OFF code EPZROS814
collywobles
23 Sep 2012 - 8:08 PM


Quote: It may not be totally a deterrent but it has one excellent feature - you will never get a re-offender.

Thats fine but what doyou do if ten years down the line new evidence proves that person was innocent, as has been established on many occasions.

Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links 
23 Sep 2012 - 8:08 PM

Join ePHOTOzine for free and remove these adverts.

mikehit
mikehit  56329 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 8:49 AM


Quote:
However I was refering to my personal experience where I have examples also.



I'm sure you do have examples, but do they support your premise that the wealthy and powerful are treated differently to the 'man on the street'?

By the way, access to fancy lawyers who can find loopholes does not count as being 'treated differently' - that is merely access to better resources.

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 9:22 AM


Quote: It may not be totally a deterrent but it has one excellent feature - you will never get a re-offender.

Thats fine but what doyou do if ten years down the line new evidence proves that person was innocent, as has been established on many occasions.

There have been far fewer examples of innocent people being hanged than there have been of innocent people being murdered by re-offenders. I know it seems a lousy trade off, but the figures speak for them selves.

mikehit
mikehit  56329 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 9:37 AM

A trade off is OK then. I presume you would take that sanguine view while your clearly-innocent relative/friend is led to the gallows.
"its' alright love, on the balance of things it is reasonable"

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 12:35 PM


Quote: A trade off is OK then. I presume you would take that sanguine view while your clearly-innocent relative/friend is led to the gallows.
"its' alright love, on the balance of things it is reasonable"

So what view would you take as your friend/relative has been murdered by a killer who is on bail waiting his next trial? "Well its better than having another innocent person hanged?"

mikehit
mikehit  56329 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 12:53 PM

So you are equating 'out on bail' with execution (I resume you are not saying that they should be executed instead of being out on bail). Everything of any substance that I read and hear tells me that captial punishment is not a deterrent. It is purely vengeance - and from a previous post (by you if I recall correctly) a money-saving measure.


Now can you respond to my post...? Would you willingly let your friend/relative go to the gallows because it seems in the long run it is justified by the payoff (with the added advantage that in the long run we save money by not jailing real murderers wot did it)?

Last Modified By mikehit at 24 Sep 2012 - 2:02 PM
mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7412 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1001 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 12:55 PM

The death penalty and the operation of the parole and bail systems are two totally different questions.

Quote: So what view would you take as your friend/relative has been murdered...

When I was about eight or nine one of my best friends was murdered, a girl I used to play with when staying with my grandparents. I never heard any more, I think I was protected from further news. But the existence of the death penalty didn't protect her, or many others.
The gallows cast a long dark shadow over my childhood in the 1950s, from an early age I was aware that the State was killing people in my name as a citizen. I suspect that younger people, who have not lived with that, could never imagine what it is like. (I grew up in an old-school right-wing family by the way, so that was certainly my own view as a young child, not inculcated). I am immensely thankful that my own daughter has not grown up under such a regime.

Last Modified By mrswoolybill at 24 Sep 2012 - 12:57 PM
Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315208 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 1:10 PM

Why don`t you just ask those facing death to tell you what its like Smile

http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=406

coliwolii
coliwolii  469 forum posts United Kingdom
24 Sep 2012 - 1:22 PM


Quote: I'm sure you do have examples, but do they support your premise that the wealthy and powerful are treated differently to the 'man on the street'?

No I just said that for the hell of it!

Unbelievable!

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 1:35 PM


Quote: So you are equating 'out on bail' with execution (I resume you are not saying that they should be executed instead of being out on bail). Everything of any substance that I read and hear tells me that captial punishment is not a deterrent. It is purely vengeance - and from a previous post (by you if I recall correctly) a money-saving measure.

Now can you respond to my post...? Would you willingly let your friend/relative go to the gallows because it seems in the long run it is justified by the payoff (with the added advantage that in the long run we save money by not jailing real murderers wot did it)?

I didn't say that. I am not equating bail with anything, it IS JUST A FACT that a number of convicted murders having been released after 8 or 9 years have committed further crimes and whilst on bail for those crimes they HAVE KILLED AGAIN.

What I did say that you appear to have missed, is that "Life" should mean "life" that way murderers couldn't commit further crimes.

Now you can reply to my question,I having already replied to yours. "So what view would you take as your friend/relative has been murdered by a killer who is on bail waiting his next trial?" Your previous reply was crazy as you equate 1 innocent person being hanged as worse than 6 innocent people being murdered.

Last Modified By Focus_Man at 24 Sep 2012 - 1:36 PM
Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 1:40 PM


Quote: Why don`t you just ask those facing death to tell you what its like Smile
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=406

I don't know what you are getting at Paul, I believe it is a deterrent as presently some criminals get longer in jail than murderers (Train Robbers eg) If they kill they don't deserve to live, but if they are put away for natural life, then that is a sensible alternative. What is not right is that they are released to kill again.

mikehit
mikehit  56329 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 2:08 PM


Quote: S

Now you can reply to my question,I having already replied to yours. "So what view would you take as your friend/relative has been murdered by a killer who is on bail waiting his next trial?" Your previous reply was crazy as you equate 1 innocent person being hanged as worse than 6 innocent people being murdered.

The commenst were:

Quote: Thats fine but what doyou do if ten years down the line new evidence proves that person was innocent, as has been established on many occasions.

To which you replied:


Quote: There have been far fewer examples of innocent people being hanged than there have been of innocent people being murdered by re-offenders. I know it seems a lousy trade off, but the figures speak for them selves.

(my boldening)

So you seem to be saying that there should be the death penalty and if an innocent person is hanged then the trade off is worth it if on the whole genuine murderers are taken out of the system. In response I was saying the trade-off is not worth it.
You avoided my question again: would you take the same view if it was your innocent friend/relative being hanged? Simple question, really...

mikehit
mikehit  56329 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 2:11 PM


Quote: So you are equating 'out on bail' with execution (I resume you are not saying that they should be executed instead of being out on bail). Everything of any substance that I read and hear tells me that captial punishment is not a deterrent. It is purely vengeance - and from a previous post (by you if I recall correctly) a money-saving measure.

...

I didn't say that. I am not equating bail with anything, .

Then what did you mean by:

Quote: So what view would you take as your friend/relative has been murdered by a killer who is on bail waiting his next trial?

The use or otherwise of the death penalty would have no bearing on crimes committed by a man on bail. The reason he is on bail is that he has not been tried, and so would not be liable to the death penalty.


Unless of course you are confusing 'out on license' with 'out on bail'.

Last Modified By mikehit at 24 Sep 2012 - 2:12 PM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2012 - 2:16 PM


Quote: would you take the same view if it was your innocent friend/relative being hanged?

Yes that does focus the issue quite well.

If it was your son/daughter, or spouse/partner or other loved one who had been hanged but later found to be innocent, would an "Oops, sorry!" be sufficient and would you accept the mistake as a fair trade-off for capital punishment?

petebfrance
24 Sep 2012 - 2:19 PM


Quote: If it was your son/daughter, or spouse/partner or other loved one who had been hanged but later found to be innocent, would an "Oops, sorry!" be sufficient and would you accept the mistake as a fair trade-off for capital punishment?

....or, of course, if it were you.

Add a Comment

You must be a member to leave a comment

Username:
Password:
Remember me:
Un-tick this box if you want to login each time you visit.