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So is it the right to family life, the fact some people might live with their parents, or the fact they're unmarried with children that upsets you?
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No, those 2 points I made do not upset me in the least. I would think a greater majority of those 'called up' would accept it, and probably benefit from discipline and respect for others. But with this Human Rights claptrap there would be plenty using it to avoid a stint in the Forces. I was talking to a foreigner only a few days ago. He is from the EU and is now living and working here. He has had a culture shock due to the swearing and nasty attitude of people, even some workmates, and not just youngsters and teenagers. He does not understand why there is so much foul and filthy language in general conversation.
Thats a reflection on culture and society not because we're not in the army.
There might even be people in the forces who swear, drink, fight and don't always have a healthy attitude
Yes, but why has society and culture in the UK broken down ? There MIGHT be people in the forces who swear, etc... There certainly are. But discipline and respect can be taught and drilled into the majority of people, and they will be the better for it. And there are exceptions - look at the person who pleaded guilty to assaulting fellow MPs. I believe he served in the Army and was of rank. (Can't understand why the charge was common assault...., broken skin, blood, the appropriate charge should have been assault occasioning actual bodily harm. But nowadays the Criminals' Protection Service make the decisions -plea bargaining, another unwelcome US thing.)
Quote: Yes, but why has society and culture in the UK broken down ?
Look at it and the divide with the creation of sub-cultures. My guess is its economically related, if there isn't much discipline at the top surely people will think 'they do it why not us'.
Quote: There MIGHT be people in the forces who swear, etc... There certainly are. But discipline and respect can be taught and drilled into the majority of people.
Bit of a contradiction?
Quote: look at the person who pleaded guilty to assaulting fellow MPs. I believe he served in the Army and was of rank.
No one died given first and foremost thats what you're trained to do. The second sentence enforces my point, National Service isn't an answer to a degrading society
Quote: But discipline and respect can be taught and drilled into the majority of people, and they will be the better for it.
But not all
Try combining several keys to make a word. We can talk about sentence construction when you've managed that.
.......so what do we do with the thickos and dregs of society?......build them more prisons to house them in comfort and human rights? or start at the bottom and teach our children values and family discipline in a new national service for children in the five to twenties.......yes SCHOOL.
Quote: ......build them more prisons to house them in comfort and human rights? or start at the bottom and teach our children values and family discipline
Yes - but there is only a limited amount that can be taught at school, the rest has to come from the parents and at the moment there so many parents that are beyond help that their children have little chance. I do believe that prison is no deterent for the habitual felon, as their life in prison is little different to their life on the outside. They live with mates, they dont work, they have three meals a day, dont have to worry about feeding their family or worry about paying the next bill that lands on the mat. To some its no more than an inconvenience.
My answer is religion.(bear with me, I'm an atheist)
1) Eat your 5 a day or you will get fat and die.
2) Turn off the lights and recycle - or we will all die.
3) Look out for people taking photographs who might be terrorists , or you will die.
4) Be nice to people or you will burn in hell.
So 1,2 are popular in schools.
No.3 we're all aware of.
But dare mention 4 and you're a myth believing crackpot, how dare you suggest it in this day and age.
So that' s all religion was - a 'policy' to get the uneducated masses to behave, so why have we undone it ?
Do the militant atheists tell their kids to behave so Santa will bring presents ? - How is that different ?
My kids go to a CoE school, so think God made everything, I tell them the alternative, but I will not undo their belief in God until they are old enough to decide for themselves. As a staunch Darwinist myself I'm sure they will come to the right decision but that nagging doubt will there- what if it's true ?
Quote: Yes - but there is only a limited amount that can be taught at school, the rest has to come from the parents and at the moment there so many parents that are beyond help that their children have little chance.
I'm sure you're right. I'm a great believer in teaching life skills, personal development, good citizenship etc. in schools, as you probably know, but I have to admit that the efficacy of this is limited by the amount of parental encouragement on offer. However, in my opinion a good deal can be done through education to mitigate the many behavioural and social problems out there.
Basically I suppose any decent education (whatever that is) and socialisation of the individual is deeply influenced by our peer groups (and of course, there are other peer groups in prison!).
Now, behave yourself! I know Zatoichi and I tend to bang on about anti-war stuff but surely he makes the very valid point that National Service isn't necessarily the best way to develop a man or woman's good behaviour or personal qualities.
Quote: Instead, what Labour should be doing is respecting those working class people for the value of what they do, rather than perpetuating the class war.
Some people will never be accountants, they will stack shelves for Tesco. This is a good thing. We need food on shelves. Instead of saying "that person deserves a chance to better himself" we should be saying "that person does a good job and is a valuable member of society".
I like what you say, Big Brian - well said!
Quote: National Service for Pensioners sounds reasonable to me.
Oh, shut up! I know we are a burden on the country and all that... but really...
National Service for pensioners......HA! HA!.....most of us........HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT
Hobbo (ex trooper 4th/7th RDG 1956-1958
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