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pete146uk
pete146uk  1 United Kingdom
19 Nov 2012 - 11:53 AM

I'm getting a bit frustrated trying to set up my collections in Lightroom 4!

I've imported 4000 images into Lightroom and I'm now trying to organise them into collections (not smart collections).

So -
I create a Collection set, for example 'Holidays'.
I then create a collection within this called 'Florida' I put all of my Florida photos in here

I then want to break down the collection further - EG have a collection called Animal Kingdom, and another called Universal Studios. So I select the Animal Kingdom photos from within the Florida collection, but I cannot create an Animal Kingdom collection WITHIN the Florida collection.

It seems that you can only create collections within a collection set. Therefore, should I have created a Florida collection set, rather than just a collection? This would give me the ability to create sub collections, but then I can't see all of my Florida pics in one view!

The other problem is - what if in future I want to break down my Animal Kingdom photos even further? EG have a collection of 'Lion King', and one of 'Rides' - would I need to then delete the Animal Kingdom collection, and instead create an Animal Kingdom collection set?


I hope that makes some sense to somebody, I can't think how to explain it any better Sad

Thanks for your help
Pete

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mikehit
mikehit  56335 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2012 - 12:10 PM

You could have your Florida collection and use captions/keywords (wildlife, birds etc) to view specific photos?

lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014128 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2012 - 12:10 PM


Quote: It seems that you can only create collections within a collection set.

That is correct.

Your question seems to show that you might be thinking about collections wrongly. In that you are thinking that a picture can only ever be in one collection. That is wrong, it can be in multiple collections at the same time - which is why they are more powerful than folders.

So in this case you could have the following structure:
Holidays (collection set)
'- Florida (Collection Set
'--All (collection)
'-- Some Other place (Collection)
'-- Animal Kingdom (Collection Set)
'--- All (Collection)
'--- Rides (Collection)
'--- Lion King (Collection)

Alternatively you could put them all in one florida collection & use keywords to split that collection up.

lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014128 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2012 - 12:26 PM

Another thought is that it's best not to do too much organisation up front. there is no point in creating a Lion King collection if you are never going to look for that.

My usual structure for this sort of thing is:
Holidays
'- 2012
'-- Florida
'---All
'---Picks

So just two folders (everything and the good stuff). If I then had cause to find all the pics for the lion kiking I would go through all & create a collection of them then.
Some basic keywording will help too - I keyword everything with the location and any family members in them. That all I need for 99% of my searches.

pete146uk
pete146uk  1 United Kingdom
19 Nov 2012 - 12:55 PM

Thanks for the help, and it all makes sense.

I understand that a photo can be in more than one collection. I guess my thinking was to keep the overall list of collections as short as possible when mot expanded, and just expand the lists when required. EG I have a set of photos from a cruise - so I guess the organisation would be:

Cruise 2011 (set)
Rome (set)
Colosseum (collection)
Vatican (collection)
Barcellona (set)
Art (collection)
Architecture (collection)

etc etc.

This would work fine. I guess the only difficulty would be if I then decided to further split out the Vatican photos for example (into St Peters, Sistine Chapel etc) - I wouldn't be able to unless I changed the Vatican collection to a set OR had the new collections at the same level as the Vatican Collection (they would not be hidden within the Vatican collection until I expand it) is this correct?

Or am I really thinking too hard about this, and should just split out the Vatican photos by keyword so that I can filter them down in fure anyway! Smile

Thanks again

lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014128 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2012 - 1:41 PM


Quote: I guess the organisation would be:

Cruise 2011 (set)
Rome (set)
Colosseum (collection)
Vatican (collection)
Barcellona (set)
Art (collection)
Architecture (collection)

etc etc.

Personally I would have an All collection inside Cruise 2011 so that you don't lose ones that don't fit in any of the sub categories.
Art & architecture might be better as keywords, then you could create a smart collection of "in folder barcellona with keyword of Art" to give you the view you are after.



Quote: I guess the only difficulty would be if I then decided to further split out the Vatican photos for example (into St Peters, Sistine Chapel etc) - I wouldn't be able to unless I changed the Vatican collection to a set OR had the new collections at the same level as the Vatican Collection (they would not be hidden within the Vatican collection until I expand it) is this correct?

I would normally cretea a new collection set of vatican, then rename the vatican caollection to "All" and put it inside the vatican set. Then create my new collections alongside All.


Quote: Or am I really thinking too hard about this, and should just split out the Vatican photos by keyword so that I can filter them down in fure anyway! Smile

Are you ever going to need to search on them ? Its a wasted effort to add collections and keywords you never search on. I only add organisation for stuff I have searched on before.
Star ratings are pretty useful though., my main searches are either "all 5 star images of !.

For instance if I need to find a good picture of a boat in the lake district for a magazine article: I already keyword by location so I would just filter by "location = lake district and stars >=4" then I would create a new keyword of boat and add it to all the pics with boats in. I would then filter by "location = lake district and stars >=4 and keyword of boat" and put the ones I liked in a new collection Magazine submissions -> Country Life -> A boat spotters guide.

User_Removed
19 Nov 2012 - 1:49 PM

Your collections and sets do not have to be subsets of each-other. They can all stand alone - and sometimes that might be more important.

For example, if you had a "Holidays 2012" collection you could have all your images from 2012 holidays in there. If one of those holidays was in America, you could have another stand alone collection with all of the images from America. If you went back to America as one of your holidays next year, you could have those images in a new "Holidays 2013" collection but also have them in your "America" collection.

But, like several contributors above, I tend to use keywords more.

My collections are things like "Wildlife", Travel", "Landscape", "Family", Monochrome", "Arty-Farty", etc and an image might be in several of those. If I was looking for a selection of monochrome images from, say, Yellowstone in 2010 then I would click on the mono collection and search using the keywords "yellowstone" and "2010".

But, really, it has to be organised to suit your own likely patterns of image retrieval in the future. In other words, when setting up Lightroom, try to think of how you might want to search for images a few years in the future.

pete146uk
pete146uk  1 United Kingdom
19 Nov 2012 - 1:50 PM

Perfect Smile

Thanks so much for the great advice

lemmy
lemmy  71838 forum posts United Kingdom
19 Nov 2012 - 2:06 PM

One of the 'problems' with Lightroom is that it so flexible that it's hard to decide the best way to do things.

I tend to use keywords within collections so I'd have Holidays divided into Florida, California or whatever and then for the smaller subdivisions, say Redwood trees, bring up the Holiday/California collection and then keywords contain 'Redwood'.

Though, really, just the keyword 'Redwood' would do unless you also had Redwood under Holidays/Oregon and just wanted the California ones...

When I was on my first local paper we had 9 photographers covering 3-6 assignments each day. Filing consisted of the negs for the day all going into a folder with each photographers output for the day going into a sub folder. The picture desk diary had details of what each job was, so you needed to know the date of a job in order to find it later on. It relied so much on photographers' memory cells and if the diary was lost or damaged, a huge amount of work became effectively irretrievable. What we'd have given for Lightroom back then!

User_Removed
19 Nov 2012 - 4:09 PM


Quote:
When I was on my first local paper we had 9 photographers covering 3-6 assignments each day. Filing consisted of the negs for the day all going into a folder with each photographers output for the day going into a sub folder. The picture desk diary had details of what each job was, so you needed to know the date of a job in order to find it later on. It relied so much on photographers' memory cells and if the diary was lost or damaged, a huge amount of work became effectively irretrievable. What we'd have given for Lightroom back then!

Nothing to do with Lightroom - but it reminded me that one of the first computer applications I wrote was for cataloguing negatives and trannies. I used a piece of Borland software called "Objectvision" (remember it??). After spending many hours producing it, I concluded that I could have done the job much more easily using something generic like SuperBase.

At that time I needed something as magazine editors were in the habit of phoning me up to ask if I could supply a pic on a specific subject. Before I had a computer I used a punchcard and needle system which makes me smile when I remember it all those years later. If I wanted to find, say, a negative of pheasant shooting in Fife, I would put one needle though the "shooting" holes and shake out the cards, then a needle through the "pheasant" holes of the sub-batch and shake, then a third needle through the "Fife" holes of the sub-sub-batch and shake. That would give me the cards bearing the index numbers of the negatives that matched the sort.

Nowadays, of course, those editors go to an online image library and get the pics for pennies.

.

Last Modified By User_Removed at 19 Nov 2012 - 4:12 PM
JJGEE
JJGEE  96291 forum posts England18 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2012 - 4:10 PM


Quote: I tend to use keywords within collections

Interesting, not thought of that before

I take it that this implies one can search for keywords within a collection ?

User_Removed
19 Nov 2012 - 4:13 PM


Quote: I tend to use keywords within collections
Interesting, not thought of that before

I take it that this implies one can search for keywords within a collection ?

Yes - simply click on the collection and then search on the keyword in "Library" module.

JJGEE
JJGEE  96291 forum posts England18 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2012 - 4:29 PM

Going back to this original comment

Quote: (not smart collections)


I use smart collections quite a bit as I find them easier to use than searching for keywords, especially for Locations / Places

Also, instead of using keywords for things such as , Universal Studios, I would use the IPTC fields and create Smart Collections

sublocation: Universal Studios
City: Orlando
State / Province: Florida
Country: United States Of America

but as Lemmy mentioned earlier there are several ways of doing things in LR, which could cause a problem in itself when you starting out using it.

lemmy
lemmy  71838 forum posts United Kingdom
19 Nov 2012 - 5:09 PM


Quote: Before I had a computer I used a punchcard and needle system

Luxury! Grin

pete146uk
pete146uk  1 United Kingdom
19 Nov 2012 - 5:20 PM

This has turned into an interesting thread Smile

Thanks to everybody for the help and advice.

I'm just learning lightroom and have never used it before - Is IPTC basically adding metadata to images rather than keywords? Then searching the metadata in smart collections?

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