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NEW Photography Choice Gallery & Voting System (BETA)

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User_Removed
17 May 2010 - 1:39 PM

See above - I've also reported this but I'm told one can still vote.

You can't - something is definitely not right.

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17 May 2010 - 1:39 PM

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MediumSizeUnavailable

did you look in your own pf Mike ?
look in someone else's pf.

User_Removed
17 May 2010 - 1:45 PM

My view is EPZ has lost the plot.

roxpix
roxpix  112236 forum posts Scotland11 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 1:47 PM

Yeah I think on this voting system the three stats will need to be displayed as at the moment we can 'remove' another users vote
i.e.
Votes Up = 15
Votes Down = 4
Aggregate Votes = 11

User_Removed
17 May 2010 - 1:48 PM

Sorry but I don't mean to sound like I'm blowing any Trumpets but I made three image sales at the weekend and gained five jobs.
They are the votes I take notice of. The ones that part with cash for a particular image.
Ok there are a few things I don't like about this site and there are a few I do but there is such a mix of 'People with cameras', photographers, begginers and so on that although I'm grateful for comments, votes and such like, I personally don't take the voting side of it too seriously simply because I very rarely know anything about the person voting.
Having said that, if voting does it for you, then fine and I'm glad it makes you feel better about your photography but for me...............I can take it or leave it I'm afraid.

I shall probably get shot down for the above but that really is my honest opinion.

Last Modified By User_Removed at 17 May 2010 - 1:51 PM
lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014175 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 1:52 PM


Quote: If I remember right before it showed, allthough you couldn't actually vote.

No it didn't show before, we used to get people querying why it didn't appear.

User_Removed
17 May 2010 - 1:56 PM

@MediumSizeUnavailable:

Someone else's - and they had just uploaded.

But having checked Gerry and Alan's PF's, the buttons are there now.

I'll take a look at a few more.

LesF
LesF e2 Member 8177 forum postsLesF vcard 8 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:10 PM

So you upload an image it gets a few votes you go out or away from the computer and come back later to possibly a few more votes, how do you know if anyone’s voted the image down except of course the person or persons who voted it down and what does that achieve for the poster, not sure this has been that well though out.
Surely at the least if you’re voting down you must leave a reason minimum, do you think many people will vote down if they have to leave a reason, I don't think so, nothing changes really same old as.

Sorry EPZ people but you’ve lost the plot on this one

martinl
martinl e2 Member 11251 forum postsmartinl vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:11 PM


Quote: Today, we are introducing a new voting system into the gallery

Was there a desire from the majority of (probably silent) EPZr's for this or maybe the just the (more vocal) minority? If it's succesful then will it become the accepted system? If so, I fear for an exodus.

User_Removed
17 May 2010 - 2:11 PM


Quote: If so, I fear for an exodus.

I agree.

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318459 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:12 PM


Quote: I'm not too sure this has been well thought out.


Quote: This will not work - it's totally flawed from the start...


Quote: My view is EPZ has lost the plot.

A few quotes that suggest I write about the dilemma we face.

We always have moaning in the forums or on gallery posts about the RC being unfair and not realistic. We've had hundreds of forum discussions about click groups. I've had people email me and say why does this picture get hundreds of votes and that picture get 10. We get reports about problems regarding scoring.
So we continual discuss and think about ways to over come this.

Bear in mind we've had a poll and the majority are happy...

I posted this in another thread about the RC.

I'd love the system to work how it was intended...and anyone who has a way of making it a score for quality that can be uniform let us know. We've had brainstorm sessions, endless threads and no one has a solution.

Some popular ideas so far...

anonymous voting
There are too many ways to by pas this...recognised style, borders, clues, pms to mates etc

Scrap votes
It's an integral feature...polls show the majority are happy. If used right it would work better

Limit number of votes
Becomes frustrating to use site

Complex scoring algorithm based on user and weighted accordingly
Too complicated and doesn't take into account some user variables that a computer could not recognise

Have a score from 1 to 5
Been there - it didn't work - people down rated thoise they didn't like and uprated friends.

Ratings based on set of criteria quality, composition, exposure, focus originality etc
Great idea but possibly too time consuming to score each picture and still potentially flawed to biased scoring

Ratings based on level of experience
Who decides..some will be modest some will be over confident, some will lie to up or downgrade

Add to list Ade's Forced comment when voting
Forcing people will probably result in people not voting or commenting when they used to.

and Chris's Click coefficient

Could slow database down, and could lead to confusion.

Some things to consider
Natural human interaction...it's natural to have friends and form some kind of accidental bias
What is good to one person my by poor to another (Beginners for example will see pictures they think are outstanding that an advanced user would see fault with)
Someone with many hours spare has more time to look at and click on more pics
A top photographer may always get more votes from the same people who recognise his/her work so some form of clique could be picked up by computer auto rating
There are always ways around systems that people will find to bias the scores

So in light of all this we came up with the photography choice award we've introduced today...and it's beta so it may not stay, or may be revamped/tweaked. So all those who give negative views please look at the above and what we've done and can I ask you offer an alternative that will work. But I'd be surprised if we can't pick holes in any of your suggestions. Having spent six years considering options I believe it's impossible to get a system to work in what should be such a very simple way.

DRicherby
DRicherby  5269 forum posts United Kingdom725 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:15 PM

csurry wrote:

Quote: Would have been nice to see a tally of votes on each side.

I agree. Suppose your photo has zero votes. Does that mean that nobody cares about it? Does it mean that loads of people love it but the same number hate it? There's a massive difference between +1 -1 = 0 and +100 -100 = 0.

AHobbs wrote:

Quote: Both up an down votes need to require a comment as to why you voted either way, if you are going to have voting.

Why bother? If you force people to make a comment when they vote, most of the comments will be `Nice pic' or `Don't like it' or whatever is the bare minimum to satisfy the software that a comment has been made.

Fishnet wrote:

Quote: votes with no comments are just lazy and unhelpful.

I disagree entirely, on both counts. Photographs elicit emotional responses which means that there isn't always a reason you can explain for liking or disliking something. Or you might like or dislike the photograph for a reason that's already been stated several times in the comments. If I have nothing to contribute to the comments on a photo, I won't comment but I'll still vote if I like the photo.

Would you complain that somebody who smiled on seeing your photo on a gallery wall was `just lazy and unhelpful'? A vote without a comment is much the same thing, as far as I'm concerned. Voting without leaving a comment is less lazy and more helpful than not voting at all.

Fishnet
Fishnet  104976 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:15 PM


Quote: Have a score from 1 to 5
Been there - it didn't work - people down rated thoise they didn't like and uprated friends.

Isn't that what will happen to this new system? How is it different?

Angi_Wallace
17 May 2010 - 2:17 PM


Quote: My view is EPZ has lost the plot.

My thoughts exactly Wink

I thought the idea of the site was to encourage people to learn, not to put people down or scare them away.
Surely it is better to somehow encourage constructive critiscism, explaining the reason for the negative vote and ideas on how to improve the image.

The appreciation of an image can be so subjective, what if an image is technically excellent but a viewer simply does not like the subject matter and gives it a negative vote just because of that? Is that morally right? I saw an image by one of my favourite photographers on here recently and totally hated it, yet I knew the work that had gone in to it etc so was happy to just not vote.

I see too many opportunities for misuse here, whereas previously you just dont vote for an image you think is not worth a vote for whatever reason.

martinl
martinl e2 Member 11251 forum postsmartinl vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:17 PM


Quote: I believe it's impossible to get a system to work

Never suits everyone!


Quote: It's an integral feature...polls show the majority are happy.

You've even said it yourself!!

Bingo Pete, you'll never get it to suit everyone, so why not go with what the majority of EPZr's want!

Last Modified By martinl at 17 May 2010 - 2:18 PM

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