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NEW Photography Choice Gallery & Voting System (BETA)

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Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318443 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:18 PM

Just thought does anyone know why we're doing this. What our goal is?
Perhaps knowing that may inspire someone to suggest some way of reaching our goal.

We want to encourage people of all levels to feel they can upload and show their pictures - so no rejection

We want to recognise brilliant photography

We want the ability to separate and showcase the very best photos on ePHOTOzine

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17 May 2010 - 2:18 PM

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Fishnet
Fishnet  104976 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:19 PM


Quote: Would you complain that somebody who smiled on seeing your photo on a gallery wall was `just lazy and unhelpful'? A vote without a comment is much the same thing, as far as I'm concerned. Voting without leaving a comment is less lazy and more helpful than not voting at all.

You generally aren't supposed to leave comments on a wall in a gallery Tongue

Voting and adding "It made me smile" is better than leaving me wondering what it was about my photo made them click the vote button.

martinl
martinl e2 Member 10249 forum postsmartinl vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:19 PM


Quote: so no rejection

Surely allowing to vote down does this!!

Fishnet
Fishnet  104976 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:20 PM


Quote: We want to encourage people of all levels to feel they can upload and show their pictures - so no rejection

I'm not sure ending up with a photo that has a minus score isn't rejection!!

Do they actually go down into minus numbers or does it just stay at zero?

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318443 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:24 PM


Quote: Surely allowing to vote down does this!!

Not intentionally. It's there to downgrade pics that are not, in the view of some, high enough standard to reach the higher quality showcase. If there's a better way we're all ears. As I say it's a beta test. An experiment. It may not be used. We just want to gauge a reaction and try and encourage logical thinking to the problem and possible solutions to that problem.

DRicherby
DRicherby  5269 forum posts United Kingdom725 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:30 PM

I have no problem with introducing new systems as long as the old-fashioned system of positive votes only, with the names of voters viewable (to e2 members, at least) remains as an option. I find it helpful to have a list of people who have said they've liked one of my photos for a couple of reasons.

First, I like my photos (obviously) and they like my photos. That suggests we may have similar tastes so their photos are likely to be interesting to me. I'd say that most of the people on my favourites list are there because they clicked and/or commented on one of my photos and I found I liked their work when I went to look at their portfolios.

Second, a click from a photographer whose opinion I respect is a useful indication that I'm doing something right, even if they don't comment.

And, by the way, anonymous voting will do nothing for the click-cliques that have already formed, since they would continue to click their buddies' photos. All it would do would be to freeze the existing click-cliques, while preventing anyone else from joining and preventing any other groups forming. That would only increase the number of people complaining that some mediocre photo has a squillion votes while their Pullitzer-prize-winning masterpiece has only three.

Michelle_S
17 May 2010 - 2:32 PM

I don't see what all the fuss is about,sorry Tongue
The EPZ team are trying something new,it'll either work or it wont work.At least they are actively and continually trying to improve the site,you see so many site's gather up a following and then stop trying,they leave things as they are and things get stale and people lose interest. Epz is never dull Smile
I am one of the guilty people who sometimes vote on an image but don't comment, my reasons are either I don't have alot of time to sit and comment or I see an image I like but it is so above and beyond my skill that I couldn't possibley give constructive feedback.But I like to click images that I really like to show my appreciation for that image.
As a side note I would love an option for my vote to be anonymous as I'm not a fan of the 'you clicked mine so I'll click yours' thing and would prefer knowing my image got clicked for a reason other than that.
Also I quite like the idea of voting up/down and would quite like it if someone voted one of mine down and posted why they did so, but then again I'm odd Tongue

cats_123
cats_123 e2 Member 104023 forum postscats_123 vcard Northern Ireland25 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:39 PM


Quote: Not intentionally. It's there to downgrade pics that are not, in the view of some, high enough standard to reach the higher quality showcase

but do you really need to cast our the bottom quartile? if you do you will not encourage those members (and particularly new ones) to improve. and ..where does this leave the Junior section? There are some brilliant photographers already in that section and a good deal who are just starting out, with limited budgets (and yes equipment does matter in the long run)..we even have some who are still infants!!!! would you want to give them a down vote at all??

I am quite happy to see the top end get recognised and have some thing to strive for.....but I would re-affirm my opinion that voting down will have a negative effect (particularly if no comments are added).

One suggestion - let the Juniors have their own scoring/voting system and let them develop it (and the adults can only add comment) on the basis that they are more likely to be in tune with modern trends maybe something might rub off on us? Start bottom up before mass migration to a system that may alienate some of your loyal members.
`Ownership through Engagement'

Last Modified By cats_123 at 17 May 2010 - 2:42 PM
DRicherby
DRicherby  5269 forum posts United Kingdom725 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:43 PM

zarozinia wrote:

Quote: I thought the idea of the site was to encourage people to learn, not to put people down or scare them away.
Surely it is better to somehow encourage constructive critiscism, explaining the reason for the negative vote and ideas on how to improve the image.

I think this is a very good point. With the old system, you can say that you like a photo by clicking without giving a reason but the only way to say you don't like it is to say, in words, that you don't like it. At that point, you're encouraged to give some sort of reason, which can help the photographer improve. The environment was that empty praise and pats on the back were acceptable but, if you want to be negative, you had to stick your head over the parapet and explain yourself. That, I think, leads to a supportive and nurturing atmosphere in which comments focus on what you're doing right and how you could do better.

Negative votes rather change that atmosphere by providing an officially-sanctioned mechanism for non-constructive criticism of people's work which, until now, has been strongly discouraged on this site. If people want to enable that option on their own photos, that's fine, but I don't think it should be the default, either for existing or new users.

Last Modified By DRicherby at 17 May 2010 - 2:44 PM
Tooth
Tooth  95772 forum posts Ireland227 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:45 PM

why not just an "opt out of voting" button for those who aren't bothered about votes....

roxpix
roxpix  102236 forum posts Scotland11 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:46 PM

@DRicherby

Officially sanctioned non constructive praise is as harmful to the learning curve as non constructive criticism

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318443 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 2:51 PM


Quote: why not just an "opt out of voting" button for those who aren't bothered about votes....

We could, but that doesn't resolve the real problem of recognising brilliant photography.
Originally my idea was simple. We have a gallery I pick out what I thought were best...that quite quickly got shot down because I am one person and my view may not be the right/best view. So readers choice was added to give everyone a chance to vote for the best, but that quickly got shot down because, as we know, members click on friends pictures.

So how do we lift up the best?

Michelle_S
17 May 2010 - 2:54 PM


Quote: I pick out what I thought were best...that quite quickly got shot down because I am one person and my view may not be the right/best view. So readers choice was added to give everyone a chance to vote for the best, but that quickly got shot down because, as we know, members click on friends pictures.

So how do we lift up the best?

Maybe put together a panel of willing photographers/judges,who would look over the previous months images and choose one/multiple images they deem the best ,and the would go into a seperate catergory.Then said photographers/judges would chose one of those images to be photograph of the month.

randomrubble
17 May 2010 - 2:56 PM


Quote: why not just an "opt out of voting" button for those who aren't bothered about votes....
We could, but that doesn't resolve the real problem of recognising brilliant photography.
Originally my idea was simple. We have a gallery I pick out what I thought were best...that quite quickly got shot down because I am one person and my view may not be the right/best view. So readers choice was added to give everyone a chance to vote for the best, but that quickly got shot down because, as we know, members click on friends pictures.

So how do we lift up the best?

Isn't that a bit like asking how to make the Guardian sell more copies than the Sun?

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318443 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
17 May 2010 - 3:00 PM


Quote: Maybe put together a panel of willing photographers/judges,who would look over the previous months images and choose one/multiple images they deem the best ,and the would go into a seperate catergory.Then said photographers/judges would chose one of those images to be photograph of the month.

That was tried a year ago with a PA award team. That caused much controversy/upset etc


Quote: Isn't that a bit like asking how to make the Guardian sell more copies than the Sun?

Not really If I was asking how we get more members yes, but I'm asking how we ensure the best pictures are voted for correctly.

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