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Quote: Officially sanctioned non constructive praise is as harmful to the learning curve as non constructive criticism
I agree but there's not a lot you can do about that. If you forget all about votes and just look at the comments on photos, you'll see large amounts of non-constructive praise (my pet hate is all the `superb detail' comments you see on birds and flowers that are barely in focus), some constructive praise and criticism but very little non-constructive criticism. Given that it's impossible to eliminate all non-constructive comments, eliminating the non-constructive criticism is a reasonable compromise.
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do we really need this? people have their little cliques, they will still vote their buddies up and threats down! who cares!
Quote: We want to encourage people of all levels to feel they can upload and show their pictures - so no rejection
consider the scenario Pete, say your new to EPZ you post the first image, and it gets a score of -10, you go away disheartened never to return.
I have a great deal of sympathy for the team trying to get a fairer system and I wish I had the answer. The new system will be abused (not had a chance to look, but I'm sure it has already). But this system will create I'll feeling as it will become vindictive against certain photographers and genres, just like the no of views used to be. For one some downt like digital manipulation I can see some excellent examples of this been targeted, the same for photographers visiting popular location, or not liking monos etc.
If you are to leave a negative vote surely you should have to explain why, even if there's a facility to leave comment annonymously if so required that way the example I cited at thestart will have 10 comments on why the photo doesn't work not just a deflating negative score.
My picture is now in the black with 3 votes - hooray!
Actually, I don't mind the negative votes and at least the picture has had some response, both good and bad.
For me the jury is still out on this one but I must admit that it would not have been my choice for change. I still believe that the voting system should be left as it is but that everyone should be given an extra daily vote so that they can pick their favourite picture of the day and those pictures receiving favourite votes should go into a new Readers' Choice Gallery.
As for making comments compulsory then I must admit that I am opposed as there are so many pictures that I like but can think of nothing original or constructive to say. The bird on a stick, for instance, probably technically excellent and good to see but what can you say that hasn't been said a thousand times before. It still deserves a vote though.
Here's a suggestion - why not force a comment for each negative vote? If you feel so strongly that a negative vote is due surely it makes sense that you should provide a critique to justify your feelings? That way would encourage negative votes that can be justified and, hopefully, provide constructive criticism.
Quote: Here's a suggestion - why not force a comment for each negative vote? If you feel so strongly that a negative vote is due surely it makes sense that you should provide a critique to justify your feelings? That way would encourage negative votes that can be justified and, hopefully, provide constructive criticism.
Sounds good but a comment for the positive vote also. In other words, no comment no vote!
@Fraser: Forcing a comment will lead to many people making the smallest comment necessary to satisfy the software. `Don't like it'. `It's rubbish.' `No good.' `My kid could do better.'
Quote: Sounds good but a comment for the positive vote also. In other words, no comment no vote!
I think forced comments all round will discourage comments of any kind. I feel it's more valid that negative votes should be justified.
Quote: @Fraser: Forcing a comment will lead to many people making the smallest comment necessary to satisfy the software. `Don't like it'. `It's rubbish.' `No good.' `My kid could do better.'
Possibly, but I think that would be rare as that approach is provocative. It would also out people as miserable sods so they'd be less likely to go down that road. I'd like to think the majority of people would provide a critique if they felt so strongly that a negative wote would be appropriate.
Quote: I still believe that the voting system should be left as it is but that everyone should be given an extra daily vote so that they can pick their favourite picture of the day
This has always been one of our more favoured ideas, but the restriction would cause problems for people who have limited time and maybe want to see what comes along later. Now they can click and not worry, If we restricted to 10 or so votes they would lose enjoyment...we think.
What's interesting is the Guest Editor slots. Everyone who's taken a slot so far has had to look through and pick the best and I hope you'll agree that they've done a fine job. If we could encourage that thinking from everyone the current system (readers choice) would work much better.
Have to agree that it all comes down to time. Not many people have the time available to comment on all the shots that they like and many excellent photos would get missed because people are so busy commenting on others.
Firstly, I want to thank everyone for their feedback so far especially those who have taken the time to try the system out for themselves.
Here is the thought behind the system to an extent. As many know, there has been alot of discussion about how the original voting system is opened to 'click groups' and often times members looked at the gallery and wondered how really good photos get 7-10 votes, while some not so great photos may get 20+ votes. It didn't seem fair. So we thought 'what if we give members the ability to down vote photos?'. The idea being that we have only allowed users to express their like/love for a photo, but never their dislike for a photo, thus making it a bit of a one-way system. So by providing a system that allows both directions of votes, you create a level playing ground for everyone that uploads. Those who see these photos that have 20+ votes but don't feel they deserve that sort of voting level, can downgrade the voting, thus closing up the gap between good photos from new/not well known members and click group photos.
It's an attempt at trying a new way of voting to solve a long-term issue that we have had on the site. We aren't saying that it will solve the issue, it may solve some issues, but may introduce new ones. All we ask is for everyone to give it a chance. If you don't want to participate in the new system, you don't have to, voting system is opted to the original style. We do want your feedback, but most of all we want to see how everyone uses the system.
Quote: In other words, no comment no vote!
Nice one m8
more helpful than
Readers' votes: 5
If you force people do so something they don't want to do, they'll do the minimum possible to get around the system.
Quote: So all those who give negative views please look at the above and what we've done and can I ask you offer an alternative that will work. But I'd be surprised if we can't pick holes in any of your suggestions.
I like the principal behind the plus/minus voting system but how about keeping them seperate? I don't like the idea that I may have clicked on a photo that I personally liked, yet the next person doesn't like it so they "down" vote it, reducing it back to zero.
If every uploaded photo had up and down voting but showed them seperately, the person could see how many positive and negative responses their photo has received. For example, some of the fantastic landscapes/seascapes that get 150 votes can be great, but if someone takes a dislike to something, they could make a "down vote". I don't like the idea of forcing people to comment, but if the down vote could only be accepted after a comment was left, it could trigger the constructive criticism. If the up votes remained as they were alongside, then a new member wouldn't be put off by having negative votes numbers, but would also get to read why someone has left them a down vote.
Just a thought.
I think that Epz has forgotten what it says on its Homepage Community
In any community you will get groups of friends who go off together...In Epz's case (pre new voting system) this could have been and was all sorts of people, the so called good photographers,so called mediocre photographers,so called bad photographers......It matters not....there was always groups of people who had a common interest.
So what if a good, mediocre or bad picture got a lot of votes....It was keeping people happy.....Communities with in the Community.
With the new system all that will happen is that the mischevious element will down vote pictures good or bad.
I also notice that I havent had a message saying the new system is in place.
This will confuse many people when they log in.
Because I looked the Forums I found out but I would guess the majority wont.
The world is stat crazy and so is Epz so maybe the site staff can give a ratio of how many original users that log in will have see this thread?
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