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NIKON D800 Shock

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lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014146 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
3 Feb 2013 - 12:51 PM


Quote: From the persistent but defensive attempts to discredit my 'technique' I think that actually I am now talking to the on-line representatives of the Nikon Corporation.

I shouldn't think you are talking to anyone from Nikon here.

Quote:
So, now I have your attention, this is a very serious request for you to re-design the D800 to get rid of this technical problem.

How on earth is recording too much detail a technical problem?


Quote: In the good old days of film, medium-format was generally used on a tripod for exactly the reason that the OP mentions: camera-shake was more obvious than with 35mm.

Sounds like the same problem to me.

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3 Feb 2013 - 12:51 PM

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Steppenwolf
3 Feb 2013 - 12:55 PM


Quote: Actually my technical information on this comes from one of your own employees. I was shooting a conference on technology and was approached by a 'Nikon Trainer' who asked me what camera I was using. I showed him my D3, but then told him I had just bought a D800.
He then proceeded to advise me about having to increase the shutter speed 2-3 times to avoid getting blurred images. I immediately asked the question about shooting smaller file sizes to get around this. He told me this would make no difference, as the image would still be recorded by the sensor and then I would just get a reduced size version of this image.

The D800 has more resolution than the cameras that you're used to. It's got 36Mp. One obvious consequence of having greater resolution is that camera motion or subject movement is going to be more obvious when you look at the image full size - i.e. 100% pixel for pixel.

But, as someone has already said, if you don't like this - and are determined not to use a fast enough shutter speed or hold the camera steady enough - you just need to resize your image down to the size you're used to. You'll lose some of the detail of course, but that's the way it goes.

There's no "problem" for Nikon to address. The problem is yours.

Last Modified By Steppenwolf at 3 Feb 2013 - 12:57 PM
Steppenwolf
3 Feb 2013 - 1:03 PM


Quote: One good friend spent a fortune on a very nice guitar, expecting it to sound great. It just made the faults in his technique so much more obvious and he needed some serious tuition before he was able to get the best from the instrument.


In my experience - and I have a massive collection of guitars - "good" guitars don't make your playing sound worse. They may just not make it sound any better if your technique is poor. But a good player can make even a bad guitar sound good.

However, if your friend was going from an electric to an acoustic guitar, he'd find that the electric covers up a multitude of sins that the acoustic won't tolerate.

User_Removed
3 Feb 2013 - 2:27 PM


Quote:
The D800 has more resolution than the cameras that you're used to. It's got 36Mp. One obvious consequence of having greater resolution is that camera motion or subject movement is going to be more obvious when you look at the image full size - i.e. 100% pixel for pixel.

There's no "problem" for Nikon to address. The problem is yours.

Spot on Steppenwolf.

The point that you omitted was that, after "downsizing" to reduce the detail, the resultant image will be no worse than one taken with a camera that took only that size. In other words a 12Mp image from a D800 is going to be no less sharp than a 12Mp image from a D3s, all other things being equal. (In fact, because of the better DR and the better high-ISO performance of the D800, it might even look sharper - depending upon how you define and measure "sharpness".)

.

Last Modified By User_Removed at 3 Feb 2013 - 2:28 PM
User_Removed
3 Feb 2013 - 2:36 PM


Quote: From the persistent but defensive attempts to discredit my 'technique' I think that actually I am now talking to the on-line representatives of the Nikon Corporation.

Definitely not. What you have encountered is a lot of very experienced Nikon users who know what they are talking about.



.

User_Removed
3 Feb 2013 - 2:36 PM


Quote: In my experience - and I have a massive collection of guitars - "good" guitars don't make your playing sound worse. They may just not make it sound any better if your technique is poor. But a good player can make even a bad guitar sound good.

A most excellent analogy to what is undoubtedly the OP's actual problem - despite the 15yrs of 'being a professional'. The equipment has has got too good for him - at his current level of expertise... Wink

User_Removed
3 Feb 2013 - 2:42 PM


Quote: In my experience - and I have a massive collection of guitars - "good" guitars don't make your playing sound worse. They may just not make it sound any better if your technique is poor. But a good player can make even a bad guitar sound good.

A most excellent analogy to what is undoubtedly the OP's actual problem - despite the 15yrs of 'being a professional'. The equipment has has got too good for him - at his current level of expertise... Wink

Very good point, Mike.

In fact, when some folk on here ask, "Why do you need 12Mp, 18Mp, 24Mp and, now, 36Mp?" or "Why do you need wider dynamic range?" or "Why do you need higher ISO?", the truthful answer, for many of us is:

"We don't really need it, but those advances in technology present additional and new challenges to our photography and continue to make our hobby more interesting."

But it is a bus that any of us can get off at whatever stop suits us. A few of us will stay on right to the terminus. Just for the fun of it.

LenShepherd
LenShepherd e2 Member 62481 forum postsLenShepherd vcard United Kingdom
3 Feb 2013 - 3:24 PM


Quote: He then proceeded to advise me about having to increase the shutter speed 2-3 times to avoid getting blurred images. I immediately asked the question about shooting smaller file sizes to get around this. He told me this would make no difference, as the image would still be recorded by the sensor and then I would just get a reduced size version of this image.

I have been to many events listening to Nikon trainers - maybe you misunderstood.
All the very experienced posters posting here (there are several) are unanimous in confirming to get the best out of higher resolution cameras requires first-class technique - in much the same way as the guitar analogy.
1 or more speeds extra attention to either controlling camera shake or subject movement is normal for A2 prints. The only thing that has changed is the D800 is the first 35mm camera that can easily deliver very high-quality A2 prints.
I have no idea if or why you were told making smaller prints makes no difference. As the many many workers have confirmed, and most professional photographers with 15 years experience know, this is not true.

Graysta
Graysta  91135 forum posts England
3 Feb 2013 - 4:48 PM


Quote: What you have encountered is a lot of very experienced Nikon users who know what they are talking about.

You cannot argue that point !

I also bought my D800 from Gray's at the time when they where like rocking horse manure it was classed as used this was about 6 month's ago, I was told it was a return if this was your's then cheers mate apart from the sensor being full of crap (which I cleaned ) it's spot on. just to add that the 2 year warranty had not been registered so I got that as well.Grin Wink

User_Removed
3 Feb 2013 - 4:53 PM

Known as a 'Result'! I think Graham!! Wink Grin

Last Modified By User_Removed at 3 Feb 2013 - 4:54 PM
Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 73882 forum postsNick_w vcard England99 Constructive Critique Points
3 Feb 2013 - 7:11 PM

Well been using mine today, and deliberately took shutter speed to less 1/50 sec, hand held, and sharp as a pin. (Even at 100%) - and I'm über critical of my own work.

Edit: just rechecked, even down to 1/10 sec I can see the brush strokes in a portrait, even in the pupils of a portrait shot at 20feet away at 24mm (if I can get my daughter of the PC I will happily put up a 100%crop and full size image).

Last Modified By Nick_w at 3 Feb 2013 - 7:37 PM
Coleslaw
Coleslaw e2 Member 913403 forum postsColeslaw vcard Wales28 Constructive Critique Points
3 Feb 2013 - 7:24 PM

You probably haven't got 15 years experience though, Nick, so what do you know, you Nikon fan boy....Smile

mvpstudios
3 Feb 2013 - 7:33 PM

I agree that something must be wrong with the camera. The sensor size has nothing to do with the shutter speed, etc. I'm a Canon shooter but I have played with the D800 and I definitely liked it. I really hope Canon comes out with a high megapixel model soon.

Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 73882 forum postsNick_w vcard England99 Constructive Critique Points
3 Feb 2013 - 7:42 PM


Quote: You probably haven't got 15 years experience though, Nick, so what do you know, you Nikon fan boy....Smile

LOL.. Your right I know nothing Wink ( didn't I see you checking out the Nikon stand at focus last year ColeWink.

Seriously, how can a camera be at fault, if all it's doing is showing the camera shake? The camera shake doesn't come from the camera, but the operator, I'm sure there's an old saying somewhere, about a workman and his tools Wink and for the record I did get some with camera shake - when I was not bracing the camera properly

Last Modified By Nick_w at 3 Feb 2013 - 7:42 PM
mikehit
mikehit  56486 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
3 Feb 2013 - 8:04 PM


Quote: He then proceeded to advise me about having to increase the shutter speed 2-3 times to avoid getting blurred images.

Sharppictures - I am stillintrigued by this. Surely he explained in furthe detail the technical issues behind this advice.

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