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No UK troops would be deployed in a combat role.

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thewilliam
14 Jan 2013 - 10:51 AM

France has the Foreign Legion that's capable of most things! Why do they need our help?

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14 Jan 2013 - 10:51 AM

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collywobles
14 Jan 2013 - 11:36 AM

Its the transport they needed help with. We offered the biggest aircraft to get as much in it needing lesss flights. Simply a help in logistics.

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41174 forum posts United Kingdom196 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 1:49 PM

At the expense of our logistic capability.

cathal
cathal  9492 forum posts Ireland4 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 2:04 PM


Quote: Britain and France signed the treaty in 2010

Presumably, replacing the informal one that worked so well in 1914 and 1939.

collywobles
14 Jan 2013 - 3:20 PM


Quote: At the expense of our logistic capability.

Thats a ridiculous statement, all it is is a single flight - how does that risk our capability other than for a few hours.

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41174 forum posts United Kingdom196 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 4:29 PM

You obviously have no idea of out forces' logistic commitment. We have exactly zero C-17s sitting around doing nothing. Our capability is matched exactly to our commitment, so if one aircraft is diverted (and it isn't just for a few hours) and or goes U/S for any reason, or even (god help us) is damaged or brought down by ground fire, it has a massive knock-on effect.

That one aircraft might have been earmarked to bring out replacement parts, or replacement helicopters, which in turn leaves a patrol without air cover. Cpl John Smith is shot or blown up on patrol by an IED and now has no medevac, no trauma team, and dies. How do we explain the lack of support to the family?

You might think this an exaggeration. Those that have been there will know it isn't. The fact is, we get away with it time and time again and rely on the fact that we will continue to. If you have a relative in Afghanistan, you will know this.

Nick

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41174 forum posts United Kingdom196 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 4:55 PM

Reading the reports, it's more than a single flight. Two airframes to "support the French logistic effort" sounds like longer term assistance to me. And one's gone tits up already.

Nick

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314811 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 8:15 PM


Quote: Thats a ridiculous statement, all it is is a single flight - how does that risk our capability other than for a few hours

Yes I agree, look on it as useful a training exercise.

keith selmes
14 Jan 2013 - 8:30 PM

From various news sources, sounds as though UK provides two C-17 for one week, Canada provides one C-17, period not specified.

milly123
milly123  475 forum posts United Kingdom
14 Jan 2013 - 8:59 PM

Perhaps we should help the French in the same way they helped and supported us in 1982....

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41174 forum posts United Kingdom196 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 9:02 PM


Quote: Quote: Thats a ridiculous statement, all it is is a single flight - how does that risk our capability other than for a few hours

Yes I agree, look on it as useful a training exercise.

Training for what??? We're already involved in operations. The crews get little respite as it is. Training exercises are flying round Brize on their days out of theatre.

People not involved seem to think its all a lot of fun, swanning around the Middle East. The truth is, it's hot, boring, hard work and relentless. Add to that running the gauntlet of potential ground fire and SAMs, not your usual hazards on the way to the office.
Not having enough equipment is a constant, especially when the Americans have half a dozen aircraft sitting on each middle eastern airfield, spare.

We don't have enough kit, fact. Loaning some of the little we have to another "major force" in Europe is hard to swallow.

Nick

Last Modified By Sooty_1 at 14 Jan 2013 - 9:04 PM
collywobles
15 Jan 2013 - 3:59 PM


Quote: You might think this an exaggeration

Thats an understatement !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41174 forum posts United Kingdom196 Constructive Critique Points
15 Jan 2013 - 5:48 PM

Only to people who have no knowledge of the subject.

2 aircraft is a around quarter of our fleet.

Last Modified By Sooty_1 at 15 Jan 2013 - 5:53 PM
mikehit
mikehit  46104 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
15 Jan 2013 - 6:57 PM

When you are dealing with desert conditions (And Mali definitely is) they reckon something like a 1:4 redundancy to insure against breakdown (hot, dusty etc). This thing has broken downbefore it even leaves the country - soif we send a second one to fulfill out 'commitment' that is another of the 8 taken out from other operations, and bang goes the 'reserve' for Afghanistan/Iraq.

KevSB
KevSB  101403 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
15 Jan 2013 - 7:20 PM

I dont think the military have reserve capacity any longer in equipment, every airframe will have a shedule, including maintenence. During the cold war days in mech regiments we had rotate vchs so each had its alotted milage for the year,stayed parked up the rest of the year.

But times have changed and we dont have stockpiled equipments ready for war, I would imagine the Raf use every asset they have and there shedule is worked out weeks if not months in advance and like sooty pointed out, Non priority will get shunted back. which in a warzone could mean life or death for someone

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