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No UK troops would be deployed in a combat role.

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Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41197 forum posts United Kingdom198 Constructive Critique Points
15 Jan 2013 - 7:50 PM

Agreed, except that there is very little non-priority anymore, just higher and lower, but it often isn't easy to bump a load in favour of something else: these aircraft don't just fly from A to B and back again. It is carefully planned to fly several legs to maximise capability, fulfilling different missions on each leg. For instance, a single flight to Afghan and back is a minimum of 4 legs, usually 6, involving 2 to 4 crews. The whole evolution takes a minimum of 2 1/2 days, usually more, and that's if the aircraft stays fully serviceable all the time. You can't always just decide to offload one thing and substitute it with something else.
Add to this not flying in or out in daylight to minimise risk, and time becomes important.
Brize operates 24/7/365. Our troops deserve the best service and diverting a quarter of our effort is selling them short, IMHO. So maybe the post gets bumped, some food or supplies, ammunition, spares etc. someone will be going without something they need.

Just a word about the troops out there, people on Big Brother cry after 2 days because they miss their families. Think how you'd feel if you were separated for four to six months without being able to walk away from it. Missing even the post becomes a big deal.
And they are being shot at, mortared and bombed, even by the very people they are trying to help. We train the Afghans during the day, they fight us at night. And our troops get very little thanks, despite all the noises made by the press.

Rant over.

Nick

Last Modified By Sooty_1 at 15 Jan 2013 - 8:00 PM
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15 Jan 2013 - 7:50 PM

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ChrisStyles
ChrisStyles e2 Member 6377 forum postsChrisStyles vcard United Kingdom
15 Jan 2013 - 8:59 PM

There must be other European countries that have heavy lift equipment that could help out in Mali...why is it alway UK forces at the sharp endSad

KevSB
KevSB  101407 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
15 Jan 2013 - 11:10 PM


Quote: There must be other European countries that have heavy lift equipment that could help out in Mali...why is it alway UK forces at the sharp endSad

The answer is no, only the uk has the c17. Most country's in Europe don't need the range for their commitments and don't have the capacity

keith selmes
15 Jan 2013 - 11:20 PM


Quote: There must be other European countries that have heavy lift equipment

No. They usually borrow American ones.


Quote: alway UK forces at the sharp end

it is actually the French at that end this time.

Other countries sending aircraft -
Denmark sends a C-130 for one month with 40 air and ground crew.
Belgium offers 2 C-130 and 2 helicopters plus 75 troops.
Canada sends a C-17
The EU expects to put together a 500 man European force.

collywobles
16 Jan 2013 - 8:41 AM


Quote: 2 aircraft is a around quarter of our fleet.

....OK, but what is your point, the French ar our allies so why should we not help, we can afford and have the skills they need so lets be charitable, even if our help was needed for a few months it makes lttle difference to our current responsibilities and as has been mentioned look on it as a training excercise. Finally the people who the French are fighting are Islamic Militants linked to Al Quida - that to me is good enough reason to help.

...... and before someone says the French did not help us in 1982, they did, by not supplying excorcet missiles during the campaign.

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41197 forum posts United Kingdom198 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2013 - 10:07 AM

My point is that we have precious few resources ourselves, and that our capability will likely be compromised by sending a quarter of it away. We don't have a quarter of our fleet spare, in fact we dont have any of our fleet spare....all the aircraft are pretty much used all the time. So no, we can't afford it and it will make a difference to our current responsibilities.

If it was that important a battle against al-Qaida I'm sure the Americans would be involved, but I guess you're happy to sit at home while the government squanders our resources on someone else's war.

collywobles
16 Jan 2013 - 10:53 AM


Quote: but I guess you're happy to sit at home while the government squanders our resources on someone else's war.

I really dont believe that even you believe that your comments are valid.

They have asked us to helpand we can and have. Its made no difference to our capabilities one iota. We are helping out for a very small period, thats it!

KevSB
KevSB  101407 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2013 - 11:07 AM

[quote] Its made no difference to our capabilities one iota. quote]

Unbelievable statement... 8 airframes flying round the clock supporting the afgan effort doing cas evac, flying in equipment, troops ect and removing 2 will have no effect.

If we should help the french is not in dispute here, but the overstretched resources of the armed forces. Sitting in comfy sofas with every amenity here in the uk where even toilet paper is a luxury over there and you say it makes no difference lol.

keith selmes
16 Jan 2013 - 11:18 AM


Quote: I'm sure the Americans would be involved

they are

milly123
milly123  476 forum posts United Kingdom
16 Jan 2013 - 1:20 PM

"Behind the scenes, actions were speaking louder than words. In what would appear to be a clear breach of President Mitterrand's embargo, a French technical team - mainly working for a company 51% owned by the French government - stayed in Argentina throughout the war.

In an interview carried out in 1982 by Sunday Times journalist Isabel Hilton, the team's leader, Herve Colin, admitted carrying out one particular test that proved invaluable to Argentinian forces."

Source: BBC News........

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41197 forum posts United Kingdom198 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2013 - 1:47 PM


Quote: I really dont believe that even you believe that your comments are valid.

They have asked us to helpand we can and have. Its made no difference to our capabilities one iota. We are helping out for a very small period, thats it!

You believe what you want to. I'm stating a fact from first hand experience. If all you're doing is trying to provoke a reaction, then good luck to you. Look round your life and imagine not having even basic amenities (like a toilet you can sit on alone), and think on. If your post arrives a couple of weeks late, I bet you get annoyed. If you have no food other than basic rations for a few days, you'd want to blame someone. If your son/daughter died for lack of air support, who would you blame?

Last Modified By Sooty_1 at 16 Jan 2013 - 1:48 PM

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