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Nokia PureView 808 - 41 megapixel sensor!

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    joshwa
    joshwa ePHOTOzine Staff 3600 forum postsjoshwa vcard United Kingdom
    27 Feb 2012 - 10:03 AM

    Nokia has just announced a new mobile phone with a 41 megapixel sensor!!

    They are using it to provide loss-less zoom in stills and 1080p video!

    The white paper that explains it is here:
    http://europe.nokia.com/PRODUCT_METADATA_0/Products/Phones/8000-series/808/Nokia...

    "3x lossless zoom for stills, and 4x zoom in full HD 1080p. For 720p HD video, you’re looking at 6x lossless zoom."

    "The starting point is a super-high-resolution sensor. This has an active area of 7728 x 5368 pixels,
    totalling over 41Mpix. Depending on the aspect ratio you choose, it will use 7728 x 4354 pixels for
    16:9 images/videos, or 7152 x 5368 pixels for 4:3 images/videos"

    "What happens next depends on the settings and whether or not you’re using zoom. But to give you
    an idea, the default still image setting is 5Mpix at 16:9, and for video it’s 1080p at 30fps. Using these
    settings, the zoom is around 3x for stills and 4x for video. Conventional zoom tends to scale up images
    from a relatively low resolution, resulting in poor image quality. We were convinced there must be a
    better way, and we found it."

    It uses the sensors high resolution an pixel-binning to combine the neighboring pixels, to creat what it says are noise-free, high detail pixels...

    The sensor size is: 1/1.2”
    Carl Zeiss Lens, f/2.4 26mm 16:9, 28mm 4:3
    Pixel Size: 1.4 microns

    Last Modified By joshwa at 27 Feb 2012 - 10:06 AM
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    mikehit
    mikehit  56297 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
    27 Feb 2012 - 10:21 AM

    Interesting. A 41MP sensor offering 5MP image. I took this to mean that the level of 'pixelbinning' would depend on how much you wanted to zoom in. So for example at its widest, it would take 41MP and bin to create a 5MP image. At 2x zoom it would take 10MP and produce a 5MP image. That much I get.

    But then it says :
    " Actually, we thought people might want to do both, so we decided to make it as easy as possible to
    switch. We hope this will open up greater creativity in composition — you can shoot quickly and crop
    later when you have more time and a larger display to work with. You can re-frame as many times as you
    like, scale the image to your preferred output resolution, and choose the relevant downscaling method
    depending on what you want to do with it."

    Which suggests that the full 41MP is always on tap and that you can decide what to do with it after the fact. Surely if you take the wide angle image (5MP) and then want to zoom in, the improved pixel binnin option is no longer available. And if it is what size is the stored image?

    joshwa
    joshwa ePHOTOzine Staff 3600 forum postsjoshwa vcard United Kingdom
    27 Feb 2012 - 12:26 PM

    I think they must store both - the original, plus the 5mp pixel binned version as you shot it.

    mikehit
    mikehit  56297 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
    27 Feb 2012 - 12:35 PM

    Blimey. And that is stored on a cameraphone? Surely they are not talking about storing 41MP data files - I wonder what size card it carries.

    The only thing I can think of is that it is how the data is combined - for example the RGB sensors are combined and that data is transmitted as one packet of information so the filesize is a little over 10MB (reminds me of the discussion as to whether 45MP Foveon sensor is 45MP or 15MP). But doing that at processor level would slow down shooting rate.
    It will be fascinating to see how it pans out and if it could somehow be translated to DSLRs.

    JackAllTog
    JackAllTog e2 Member 53579 forum postsJackAllTog vcard United Kingdom58 Constructive Critique Points
    27 Feb 2012 - 3:11 PM

    So Nikon 46MP or Nokia 41MP ? - i did not believe it when i saw it so googled elsewhere first - it is true!
    And with a Pixel Size: 1.4 microns

    the PDF link says - Even digital SLR images have a certain softness. With oversampling, however, images can be noise free,
    yet incredibly detailed - they also say further on that a 2x Nyquist point over sampling is all that's required for maximum quality.
    Nothing seen yet on ISO or performance in the dark.

    Nice point made for the f2.8 lens to deliver faster shutter speeds even when (digital) zoomed in cheaper and midrange SLR zooms can go say from from f4 to f5.6 on zooming, losing light.

    Does this herald a time where RAW is not required as on-board processing software is presenting better images in the first place?

    Last Modified By JackAllTog at 27 Feb 2012 - 3:11 PM
    User_Removed
    27 Feb 2012 - 3:25 PM

    See it in action.

    As an Ex Nokia employee dissapointed to see it is runing on a symbian platform, however it will make the transition no doubt to (unfortuantely) windows.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17178014

    joshwa
    joshwa ePHOTOzine Staff 3600 forum postsjoshwa vcard United Kingdom
    27 Feb 2012 - 5:22 PM


    Quote: See it in action.

    As an Ex Nokia employee dissapointed to see it is runing on a symbian platform, however it will make the transition no doubt to (unfortuantely) windows.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17178014

    You don't like Symbian? But you don't like Windows either? What would you prefer it to run on? Smile

    I've downloaded the samples from Nokia - full size images look like they are 9 - 13 MB in size.
    I've uploaded them here: http://www.ephotozine.com/equipment/item/nokia-pureview-808-4062/images (they were in a ZIP file, so I thought it would be easier for people to view the JPEGs here instead).

    The sensor size is 1/1.2inch that's almost as big as the Nokia 1 Series / 1 inch sensor!

    The phone has 16gb memory built in, this can be expanded with a microSD card.

    strawman
    strawman  1022006 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
    28 Feb 2012 - 12:14 AM

    For phones this makes a lot of sense. First off you ditch the mechanical zoom element so fewer moving parts etc. Then when you look at the sensor size it is large so its not far off having the same pixel pitch as an existing 8mp camera phone sensor. So noise wise before trickery it will be as per the existing camera phone standard. But they have been smart and decided to limit output resolution so they can apply noise filtering and it gives potential to correct for low cost optics too.

    The important bit is they limit to 3, 5 or 8mp. I must admit when people talk of high pixel count cameras it is more the low entry systems I see benefiting because you can put on some sharp but terrible optics and recover it in software. Imagine if you produced an entry level SLR with a basic kit lens, reasonably sharp but lots of distortion and aberration. Say you could use a 40mp sensor to produce say very clean and optically corrected 12mp images.... And with that level of down sampling you could run aggressive noise filtering.

    So for camera phone users, this could be a great development.

    Carabosse
    Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
    28 Feb 2012 - 12:25 AM

    Can't wait! Imagine being able to say to a Nikon D800 owner: "My phone has more megapixels than that thing!" Lol! Grin

    User_Removed
    28 Feb 2012 - 12:44 PM

    Meego looked really good; Linux based, though would still been up against IOS,Andriod and windows. I had a play on the N9 demo unit and it was quite slick not rigid and clunky like Symbian with all the benfits of open source.

    Not against windows but that marriage between Nokia and Microsoft is a painful one.

    Carabosse
    Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
    28 Feb 2012 - 2:15 PM

    Nokia + Android + 41Mp camera would be a world-beater. Oh well! {Sigh}

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