Login or Join Now

Upload your photos, chat, win prizes and much more

Username:
Password:
Remember Me

Can't Access your Account?

New to ePHOTOzine? Join ePHOTOzine for free!

Like 0

Norway - you are in our thoughts and prayers...

Join Now

Join ePHOTOzine, the friendliest photography community.

Upload photos, chat with photographers, win prizes and much more for free!

55% OFF new PortraitPro 12 - use code EPHZROS414.
gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 92218 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2011 - 9:56 AM


Quote: Under Norwegian law you can either be sentenced to a prison term, the maximum being 21 years, or for more serious crimes, and/or where the court decides that there is real possibility of the criminal committing more crimes no matter how long he is sentenced to, then the alternative of 'forvaring' can be used. Forvaring (literally translated as custody) is a kind of 'at her majesty's pleasure' whereby the sentence can be extended beyond the initial period of 21 years if it is deemed that there is still a danger to the general public or danger of him committing other crimes. In theory - and in practise- he could end up never see the outside world again.
This is the most likely outcome in this case.

And I can't help thinking the Norwegian public will ensure there is pressure on the government (if needed) to ensure he is never released.
What worries me, is how many more of these vicious idiots are about? From what I read in certain newspaper comments columns, there are a good number of apologists for the likes of Anders Breivik in this country.
To put it another way, there are plenty of people in Britain that I would not want to live nearer to than 500 miles i.e. they would be somewhere in the sea! WinkSad

Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links 
26 Jul 2011 - 9:56 AM

Join ePHOTOzine for free and remove these adverts.

User_Removed
26 Jul 2011 - 12:07 PM

The death-toll figure has been revised downward to 76 in a BBC report this morning.

saltireblue
saltireblue Site Moderator 33363 forum postssaltireblue vcard Norway22 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2011 - 12:25 PM


Quote: The death-toll figure has been revised downward to 76 in a BBC report this morning.

That's right.
This has been explained as being due the enormous confusion on the actual evening of the shootings and while the bodies were still in situ where they fell on the island. Some bodies were counted twice.

StrayCat
StrayCat  1014199 forum posts Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2011 - 8:13 PM

In our quest to become super-civilised, how much pain and suffering is inflicted upon the victims and the victim's families, sometimes for the rest of their lives. If this person, whether he's certified insane or not, gets 21 years in prison, and the system requires that the case be reviewed, say, every 10 years, every time these reviews come up, it will be a huge emotional blow to the families and friends of the victims, who will live in fear of him being released. In Canada, a person can be sentenced to life without parole, which used to mean that, and the families of the victims could rest easy knowing that the murderer of their children, or other family member would never see freedom again. However, a number of years ago, they passed a bill that created what is called the faint hope clause, which means that any prisoner has the right to a hearing to review his or her life sentence. It has turned out that each time one of these lifers has a hearing, it is hugely traumatic for the families of their victims, fearing that they will be released. eg., we have one prisoner serving a life sentence for the murder of 26 young children; he actually taunts the families of those children. He even made a deal with prosecuters to tell them where the bodies of some of the children were, and they gave his wife $100,000.00. We have another case where a man sat beside another young man on a bus, for no reason stabbed him to death, and after the bus had stopped and been cleared of people, he then beheaded the man and began eating his flesh. He is now free, after being cleared by doctors as being no further threat to society. How do you think the family of his victim feel?

I wonder are we concentrating so much on the rights of the perpetrator, at the unwarranted expense of the families of the victims; are we, by these acts, creating perpetual victims of the families? Imo, we need to take a long look at our justice systems.

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 92218 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jul 2011 - 10:24 AM


Quote: We have another case where a man sat beside another young man on a bus, for no reason stabbed him to death, and after the bus had stopped and been cleared of people, he then beheaded the man and began eating his flesh. He is now free, after being cleared by doctors as being no further threat to society. How do you think the family of his victim feel?

I wonder are we concentrating so much on the rights of the perpetrator, at the unwarranted expense of the families of the victims; are we, by these acts, creating perpetual victims of the families? Imo, we need to take a long look at our justice systems.

That appals me, Denny.
I reckon that, regardless of the issue of punishment, individuals like Anders Breivik need to be kept out of circulation for ever because such individuals will always be a potential threat to the families of the victims, regardless of what some idiot doctors say. I feel that when anyone commits such particularly horrendous atrocities, there is no way that that individual can lead a normal life in society anymore - they are too damaged. I don't think it matters if they are considered insane or not - surely they should still be put away indefinitely...or maybe put down...

Last Modified By gcarth at 27 Jul 2011 - 10:25 AM
StrayCat
StrayCat  1014199 forum posts Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jul 2011 - 8:01 PM

The Norwegian Police are doing some heart wrenching soul-searching concerning their response to the shootings. It took an hour before police arrived on the scene, but a helicopter carrying journalists was overhead long before. The police were in a boat that had stalled. It would seem that the police would have gone in helicopters, don't you think? it's all second guessing now, but I'm sure lessons were learned, as they are with all large tragedies such as this one.

User_Removed
27 Jul 2011 - 8:22 PM


Quote: ...but I'm sure lessons were learned,...

Part of my family are Norwegian Denny - and knowing them as I do, they will learn. And very quickly.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1214381 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jul 2011 - 10:00 PM


Quote: The Norwegian Police are doing some heart wrenching soul-searching concerning their response to the shootings

Not been following the news the past few days, but that bombing could not have helped much.

StrayCat
StrayCat  1014199 forum posts Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jul 2011 - 12:37 AM

You're right there Paul; it seems to have acted as a very costly diversion.

saltireblue
saltireblue Site Moderator 33363 forum postssaltireblue vcard Norway22 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jul 2011 - 6:05 AM


Quote: The Norwegian Police are doing some heart wrenching soul-searching concerning their response to the shootings. It took an hour before police arrived on the scene, but a helicopter carrying journalists was overhead long before. The police were in a boat that had stalled. It would seem that the police would have gone in helicopters, don't you think? it's all second guessing now, but I'm sure lessons were learned, as they are with all large tragedies such as this one.

The police are not doing any soul-searching.
All the critisism comes from foreign media who haven't got a clue about the policing situation here in Norway.
Ut°ya is way out in the country. The nearest police would be the equivalent of a couple of village bobbies in the UK.
Her in Norway, once you are outside the built up areas, police stations are few and far between.
There has never before been a need to have it differently.
The only police helicopter that the police have is a surveillance 'copter not capable of carrying more than the pilot and perhaps 3 passengers. Because of budgetry cutbacks the 'copter was not in use at this time.
The nearest armed squad of police trained to deal with the kind of situation that arose, is stationed in Oslo, over 60km away by road. The electronic police log shows that from the time the first emergency call was received, to the mooment of arrest was 1 hour 2 minutes.
That included the police special forces squad making the journey from Oslo and getting over to the island.
Foreign press and media should really keep to the facts, except of course, that would get in the way of making sensational headlines, wouldn't it.

Of course, things maybe could have been done differently, and the pm has set up an independent commission to look into the whole of what happened onm the 22nd, not just the reaction of the police and authorities.

Nobody here in Norway is critical of the police over this tragedy.

digicammad
digicammad e2 Member 1021988 forum postsdigicammad vcard United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jul 2011 - 8:40 AM

After every natural disaster or major incident such as this the media always start a witch-hunt about how long it took the emergency services and/or government to react. Sensible people treat it with a pinch of salt.

It is very easy to criticise if you weren't involved and have no first hand knowledge of the situation.

Ian

saltireblue
saltireblue Site Moderator 33363 forum postssaltireblue vcard Norway22 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jul 2011 - 8:59 AM

...I forgot to add...the helicopter carrying 'journalists' was a radio station traffic 'copter which is in the air every day at this time giving live traffic reports.
It would only have taken them a few minutes to get to Ut°ya.

Coleslaw
Coleslaw e2 Member 813402 forum postsColeslaw vcard Wales28 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jul 2011 - 9:17 AM

It is good to hear from the Norwegian themselves.

Boyd
Boyd  1011213 forum posts Wales11 Constructive Critique Points
29 Jul 2011 - 9:07 AM


Quote: Foreign press and media should really keep to the facts, except of course, that would get in the way of making sensational headlines, wouldn't it.

The Colbert report.

Fluke
Fluke  659 forum posts Wales
29 Jul 2011 - 2:43 PM

I admire and respect Norway as a country very much, its a nation that has the highest values and some of the best social integration bar none. For this to happen breaks my heart and I admire your country's stance that democratic values will be enhanced not subdued.

Add a Comment

You must be a member to leave a comment

Username:
Password:
Remember me:
Un-tick this box if you want to login each time you visit.