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Occupy London protest.

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gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102286 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
24 Oct 2011 - 4:56 PM


Quote: OK Garth, lets assume we all protest -- now then, tell me where the money is going to come from to put the situation right?


The super rich are awash with wealth - that is where the money should come from. If the richest 1% have 22% of the wealth and 50% have 96% of the wealth, surely there is enough to ease the burden greatly on everyone's lives.
I'm sick of repeating myself - I've said all this so many times before: If the rich paid decent wages and decent taxes, then that would surely absorb much of the debt.
Obviously, and at least as important, we have to become more efficient with our resources - there is still so much waste out there but nobody in authority takes a blind bit of notice.
George Osbourne, true to his usual mode of pig-headed stupidity, is talking about lifting restrictions on saving green energy in order to kick-start the economy.
The fact is that we are nowhere near meeting targets required regarding climate change and could and we should be employing people to work in the renewable energy industry.
We should never have bailed out the Banks but let them go to the wall - that's what capitalism is about isn't it? The Banks are taking the p*** and paying themselves fat bonuses after being bailed out by the tax-payer. Instead of bailing out the Banks we should have bailed out the savers with tax payers money then let the irresponsible Banks go to the wall.
That is why I fully support the protests and wish them well and I think they can make a difference - at least they keep the lunacy and sheer immorality of capitalism in the public eye.

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24 Oct 2011 - 4:56 PM

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User_Removed
24 Oct 2011 - 4:57 PM


Quote:
The super rich are awash with wealth - that is where the money should come from

+1 that

Zatoichi
Zatoichi  5707 forum posts United Kingdom
24 Oct 2011 - 5:01 PM


Quote: They are a bunch of anarchists who have nothing practical to do with their time

Do you mean the mainstream ''anarchist' point of view which is 'smash the system' or the political ideology which promotes equality, community and fair trade?


Quote: whilst collecting benefits from the welfare system that we hard working tax payers contribute to - how on earth could they spend the time doing this IF they were fully occupied in full time employments!

How many have you met and spoken to that you know their employment history and socio-economic status? Or, are you just repeating some mainstream right wing view?


Quote: Unfortunately -- thats life! Get used to it!

Maybe so at the moment but a system which is clearly unsustainable, unfair and doomed to collapse is hardly the way forward.

Anyone who gets off their ass to peacefully protest against a regime which economically discriminates to the benefit of the few and neglect of many with inherent corruption has my full support, whether they have a job or not.

Ps. this isn't just London, its global.

Zatoichi
Zatoichi  5707 forum posts United Kingdom
24 Oct 2011 - 5:11 PM


Quote: The Banks are taking the p*** and paying themselves fat bonuses after being bailed out by the tax-payer

So far in this financial year, Goldman-Sachs have set aside $10.2 billion for bonuses and compensation. Thats some economic crisis.


Quote: at least they keep the lunacy and sheer immorality of capitalism in the public eye.

Absolutely.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110227 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
24 Oct 2011 - 5:25 PM

This sort of protest always reminds me of one of Schulz's Snoopy cartoons where Snoopy's banner read "Stamp out things that need stamping out" Wink

mikehit
mikehit  56298 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
24 Oct 2011 - 5:26 PM


Quote: Anyone who gets off their ass to peacefully protest against a regime which economically discriminates to the benefit of the few and neglect of many with inherent corruption has my full support, whether they have a job or not.


Unfortunately there is no system created (on a national level) where some people do not take advantage and enrich themselves. It is (unfortunately) human nature to do so.


Quote: Quote: at least they keep the lunacy and sheer immorality of capitalism in the public eye.


Absolutely.

Capitalism is to my mind preferable to a socialist state but it is important to remember that what we are seeing is not the definition of capitalism as some seem to suggest. The system will adapt to suit the situation and the issue is how do you regulate to minimise the impact of the more powerful people.


Hearing a discussion on the radio beween different factions of the financial sector there still seems to be an amazing inability of the mortgage/credit/speculator axis to recognise that they have had any active role at all in the current crisis. Unfortunately I fear it is like trying to dam the Ganges - whatever governments do the industry will still find a way round them.
I am sure that eventually the penny will drop and protests like we are seeing will play a part in that. I just don't believe that the way the protests are shaping up are the best way to do it and they will not have the impact the protesters think they will.

Last Modified By mikehit at 24 Oct 2011 - 5:28 PM
Zatoichi
Zatoichi  5707 forum posts United Kingdom
24 Oct 2011 - 5:35 PM


Quote: This sort of protest always reminds me of one of Schulz's Snoopy cartoons where Snoopy's banner read "Stamp out things that need stamping out" Wink

The list is too long for any banner.


Quote: I just don't believe that the way the protests are shaping up are the best way to do it and they will not have the impact the protesters think they will.

You're probably right. Its not in the interest of the political and financial class to have people aware, best to keep them dumb. No doubt someone will throw a brick through a window and then there's the excuse to beat over the head with truncheons under the guise thats its about 'anarchy and violence and they're all just thugs'.

mikehit
mikehit  56298 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
24 Oct 2011 - 5:44 PM


Quote: You're probably right. Its not in the interest of the political and financial class to have people aware, best to keep them dumb. No doubt someone will throw a brick through a window and then there's the excuse to beat over the head with truncheons under the guise thats its about 'anarchy and violence and they're all just thugs'.

The cynicism is acknowledged Smile
But there comes a point you have to play the system at their own game - you have to reach a critical mass of the general population and then the politicians will listen. These protests started as a protest of the pissed-off but they are (again) turning into a gallery of the usual suspects and that is when joe public feels it is the same old story with their voice being drowned out by the hardcore political activists. Once that happens you end up in the same old scenario you describe.

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102286 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
24 Oct 2011 - 5:46 PM


Quote: Unfortunately -- thats life! Get used to it!


No it ******* well isn't! It's a kind of living death for some...spiritually moribund and stuck in a rut that offers little hope for the future; no apprenticeship; only silly celebrities (only famous for being celebrities - with a few exceptions) for role models; impossible dreams of becoming a professional footballer, except for a talented few...
There are countless decent working people who are struggling to make ends meet - people on whom the fat, selfish greedy capitalists rely on and would not be where they are without their labour. I say that is totally unacceptable and the balance has to be redressed.
What is needed is for more super-rich to pay more tax (there are signs of some volunteering to do this already) and employ people in renewable energy and energy efficiency schemes.
Also schemes to build economic houses, playing fields and youth centres etc. (obviously after listening to what local youths and communities actually want and need).
Grrrr!... WinkSad

cats_123
cats_123 e2 Member 104009 forum postscats_123 vcard Northern Ireland25 Constructive Critique Points
24 Oct 2011 - 6:46 PM


Quote: Tesco's & Pret is nearby to keep them well supplied.

well that's capitalism dealt a searing blow then!! Wink

User_Removed
24 Oct 2011 - 6:51 PM

I don't think there's any local independent family run shops in the area, probably killed by the corporates...

collywobles
25 Oct 2011 - 11:18 AM


Quote: The super rich are awash with wealth - that is where the money should come from. If the richest 1% have 22% of the wealth and 50% have 96% of the wealth

Like I said, "thats life you have to get used to it.


Quote: If the rich paid decent wages and decent taxes, then that would surely absorb much of the debt.

Paying higher wages will do nothing to resolve the debt except close companies. Thats why all our manufactured items now come from China.

You talk about taxing the rich -- do you not consider that it is very fair at the moment that anyone earning more than about 44k a year actual pays 40/50 pence in every pound they earn over this amount. To me thats very reasonable and I consider it would be grossly "unfair" to tax them even more.


Quote:
Instead of bailing out the Banks we should have bailed out the savers with tax payers money then let the irresponsible Banks go to the wall.

....... Yeah .... and let the Global Economy totally collapse ...... yeah makes real sense doesn't it!

Last Modified By collywobles at 25 Oct 2011 - 11:18 AM
User_Removed
25 Oct 2011 - 11:28 AM


Quote: Like I said, "thats life you have to get used to it.

If you want to be good little boy and do as you're told colly, you're right

Zatoichi
Zatoichi  5707 forum posts United Kingdom
25 Oct 2011 - 12:50 PM


Quote: Yeah .... and let the Global Economy totally collapse ...... yeah makes real sense doesn't it!

Its going to happen anyway. Pay off debt by creating more debt......that makes real sense doesn't itWink

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102286 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
25 Oct 2011 - 12:58 PM


Quote: Like I said, "thats life you have to get used to it.


Well, of course, it suits you and your super rich pals and the Establishment if we are supposed to "get used to it".
Well, I say sod that: The elite powers that be will need to "get used to it" when protests and violence increase in intensity and their interests are directly threatened - as surely they will...


Quote: ....... Yeah .... and let the Global Economy totally collapse ...... yeah makes real sense doesn't it!

How can you assume that? People would have their savings intact and Banks would know that they must toe the line in future.
Hasn't the Global economy all but completely collapsed already? I suggest you read Zastoichi's point about "paying off debt by creating more debt".

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