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Occupy London protest.

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AlexandraSD
25 Oct 2011 - 1:31 PM

The economy is man made, so is money, its all an illusion to control you Smile

You can blame your parents for everything thats wrong in this world, by registering your births, therefore handing your personal freedom to the governments of this world and making you accountable for any fines you incur in your life. You and your strawman are inextricably linked until you die, where someone fills in another form to let the government know you are unable to provide fat profits to greedy ****** any more.

Smiley face Grin

Last Modified By Moderator Team at 26 Oct 2011 - 9:24 AM
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25 Oct 2011 - 1:31 PM

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collywobles
25 Oct 2011 - 4:27 PM


Quote: If you want to be good little boy and do as you're told colly, you're right


Well, of course, it suits you and your super rich pals and the Establishment if we are supposed to "get used to it".
Well, I say sod that: The elite powers that be will need to "get used to it" when protests and violence increase in intensity and their interests are directly threatened - as surely they will...


I did expect this response.

Why should violence even enter the discussion?

I get on with my life in my own way, all I have, is due to my hard work and career planing. I have brought up 4 boys who have all obtained a degree and who have jobs and salaries that others would envy. I have a 5 figure pension (fully paid up by me and my employer) that enables me to continue the same lifestyle I and my family had when I was in full time employment, but I did this with my families support and my own hard work. If you wish to be a white van driver (apologies to white van drivers as I only used them as an example) then go ahead and be one but dont expect others to suppliment your income by taxing them higher just because your income is not enough, you could do what other higher paid people have done also - work your butt off and improve your quality of life.

I could of course, as cleary some here do, is to bitch and moan about how hard done by I am and that there are people who have more money than me which is grossly unfair and I should have some of it. NO WAY PEDRO! If they have earnt it then good luck to them.

Life is unfair sometimes but you have to move on and get over it instead of pissin n moaning about why you dont have what some others have and that it should be spread around.

Like I said anyone earning over about 44K pay Income Tax at 40/50 pence in the pound - I believe thats more than fair.. If you want taxation to be highewr then I want benefits to be lower - hows that for being fair!

Last Modified By collywobles at 25 Oct 2011 - 4:31 PM
Zatoichi
Zatoichi  5707 forum posts United Kingdom
25 Oct 2011 - 5:11 PM


Quote: . If you want taxation to be highewr then I want benefits to be lower - hows that for being fair!

If the super wealthy paid their share maybe we wouldn't have this 'crisis'.


Quote: Life is unfair sometimes but you have to move on and get over it instead of pissin n moaning about why you dont have what some others have and that it should be spread around.

How benevolent.


Quote: I could of course, as cleary some here do, is to bitch and moan about how hard done by I am and that there are people who have more money than me which is grossly unfair and I should have some of it. NO WAY PEDRO.

Where did you read that?


Quote: If they have earnt it then good luck to them.

Yeah, regardless of how or who gets in the way.

adrian_w
adrian_w e2 Member 73355 forum postsadrian_w vcard Scotland4 Constructive Critique Points
25 Oct 2011 - 5:16 PM


Quote: Like I said anyone earning over about 44K pay Income Tax at 40/50 pence in the pound - I believe thats more than fair.

Unfortunately that's not totally true. Most of the "superrich" don't pay any tax at all, they have teams of accountants & lawyers who make sure that their earnings are offset against nebulous "expenditures" or are paid offshore so don't incur income tax.
As Philip Green how much tax he paid last year.

AlexandraSD
25 Oct 2011 - 5:28 PM

Id be pissed off if there were no white van men around, just because someone chooses to be a courier does not make them any less than a person.

By the way, Google avoided paying out 450M in 2009 with its revenue from UK advertising, which came in at an impressive 1.6 Billion. It is not only google but many global corporations do this.

Just one reason why an ever growing number are getting pissed off and disillusioned with the way things are.

But nothing is set in stone.

Only dinosaurs maybe Grin

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102290 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
25 Oct 2011 - 9:50 PM


Quote: Why should violence even enter the discussion?


Because the attitude that you seem to take drives people to violence.


Quote: Like I said anyone earning over about 44K pay Income Tax at 40/50 pence in the pound - I believe thats more than fair.


The simple fact is that if the richest 1% have 22% of the wealth and 50% have about 94% of the wealth they cannot be paying enough tax.


Quote: work your butt off and improve your quality of life.



Many people work their butts off and still can't improve the quality of their lives.

Colin, you seem to think that everyone should just be quiet and shut up and let the rich and powerful get on with it.
If working men and women had not eventually formed Trade Unions at the end of the 19th century (and only after much persecution by the upper class establishment) they would still all be living in slums today.
I'm tired of saying this: Not everyone is envious of the rich - they simply, and rightly, expect a fair days wage for a fair days pay.

strawman
strawman  1022010 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
26 Oct 2011 - 12:56 AM


Quote: a fair days wage for a fair days pay

Is there any evidence people are not getting that? What is a fair days wage? Not certain I know how to define that.

Quote: anyone earning over about 44K pay Income Tax at 40/50 pence in the pound - I believe thats more than fair

. I disagree. You can have a family where one person works and earns 45K and another when two work each earning 22.5K. the latter will pay less tax why? It is not fair. After all for benefits etc the partners income will be assessed in the equation so why for for the income? Also would a fair distribution of the tax make it more viable for families to be able to afford only one person working and the other spending time raising kids. This would have social benefits and also potentially open up more employment positions for the unemployed.

Why should the family with only one income be taxed harder?

strawman
strawman  1022010 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
26 Oct 2011 - 1:07 AM

Interestingly in all this discussion about finances a lot of people are getting a benefit that I have yet to see being credited.

Mortgages are often at stupidly low rates of interest. So a lot of people must be benefiting from the low cost mortgages. It is so stupid that I have been able to re-take out my mortgage and re-invest it within the same building society at a higher rate of return than the mortgage payments. i.e I am getting paid to borrow money at no risk from the same building society. How on earth can they stay in business that way??

But seriously mortgage payments must be at an all time low so how will we all cope when interest rises to @ 6% or so as it has done in the past. I cannot be the only person to be benefiting from this. Having lived through interest rates of @ 12% does no one else worry about this? What happens when the Bank of England stops keeping the cost of borrowing at an artificial low level? I cannot remember mortgages being lower than 1 year bond interest rates before.

collywobles
26 Oct 2011 - 8:46 AM


Quote: The simple fact is that if the richest 1% have 22% of the wealth and 50% have about 94% of the wealth they cannot be paying enough tax.

OK that maybe true - but Hey - get used to it. My next door neighbour has a better car than I have, does that mean I should begrudge him that and demand I should have some of it - makes no sense unless envy has a lot to do with it.


Quote: It is not fair

I think this is your underlying issue -- ENVY!

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102290 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
26 Oct 2011 - 9:44 AM


Quote: Is there any evidence people are not getting that? What is a fair days wage? Not certain I know how to define that.


There's evidence all around; I agree it is difficult to define precisely what is a fair days wage but surely when people have to work overtime to keep a roof over their heads, then they are not being paid enough. The fact is that the gap between rich and poor is huge and widening all the time: That should be all anyone needs to know to come to the conclusion that we have an imbalance of wealth distribution and there needs to be a redistribution of that wealth; whether by taxation, better wages, more investment in youth facilities (carefully targeted); better education and preparation for life as a worthy, well-rounded citizen. Then there's the need for less waste on over-paid management consultants; no more fat bonuses for Bankers; more efficiency in energy saving etc. etc.


Quote: My next door neighbour has a better car than I have, does that mean I should begrudge him that and demand I should have some of it - makes no sense unless envy has a lot to do with it.



That is a ridiculous and disingenuous argument: You should know by now, if you actually read what Zatoichi and others like myself say, that we believe that everyone should be able to afford a roof over their heads as well as fuel and food. Anyone should be able to expect that much but many decent people are struggling.

Quote: I think this is your underlying issue -- ENVY!

I may have underlying issues but envy is not one of them. Personally, I feel sorry for people who live with only one aspiration: to acquire as much wealth and "social status" as possible.
The only people I envy are those modest souls who do all sorts of good work for others less fortunate than themselves while being able to assert quiet authority with their wisdom and caring for their fellow men and women.
Colin; you don't seem to have any underlying issues - they're all very much on the surface Wink: lack of empathy for others, denial and the inability to understand plain English. Wink

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110307 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
26 Oct 2011 - 10:13 AM

Just a stray thought - are the "Campers" at St Paul's guilty of breaching the old law of "Loitering Within Tent"? Tongue

keithh
keithh e2 Member 1023094 forum postskeithh vcard Wallis and Futuna33 Constructive Critique Points
26 Oct 2011 - 10:29 AM

Not really, as thermal imaging has shown that most of the tents are empty at night.
Wink

Probably loitering within Mum's or Loitering within Premier Inn.

Zatoichi
Zatoichi  5707 forum posts United Kingdom
26 Oct 2011 - 12:32 PM

It appears authorities in the US and Australia don't like the protests with riot police attacking peaceful demonstrations with tear gas, flash grenades, bean bag guns, and sonic canon, making hundreds of arrests and laying waste to the camps.

I expect if the same took place in Iran or Syria the UN would be meeting to impose further sanctions and call for NATO bombing to save the people from such tyranny Wink

mikehit
mikehit  56533 forum posts United Kingdom10 Constructive Critique Points
26 Oct 2011 - 2:36 PM

Tear gas and watery eyes versus a shoot to kill policy.


Quote: Wink

Indeed Wink

Last Modified By mikehit at 26 Oct 2011 - 2:36 PM
Zatoichi
Zatoichi  5707 forum posts United Kingdom
26 Oct 2011 - 2:57 PM


Quote: Tear gas and watery eyes versus a shoot to kill policy.

Hmm.....so they should be grateful not to get shot? I was under the impression that democracies encouraged and supported the right to peaceful protest, not bludgeon people for doing so. Would the same stance be taken if people were protesting to bomb Iran? Doubt it somehow.

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