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Off-putting experience

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    KatieR
    KatieR (e2 Member)
    8
    6197 forum postsKatieR vcard 6 Constructive Critique Points
    4 May 2005 - 1:49 AM
    0

    (Sorry for the length of this, but it needs a full explanation and some context)

    I spent the day in London on Saturday, taking photos with a friend. As you can imagine, it was very busy and there were loads of other people with cameras around.
    Amongst other places, we went to Covent Garden where there are several interesting street entertainers.
    Lots of people were standing around the "human statues" near Covent Garden station (if you haven't seen them, they are heavily costumed/ masked and remain perfectly still - the first time you see them you are never quite sure if they are real). Lots of people had their cameras out and were snapping away - I, too, took a couple of shots of a chap I had seen before. I have taken snaps of him and others in the past. He remains completely motionless, and then suddenly moves - it makes people scream!
    On this occasion, my friend (I confess that I didn't witness the actual event) approached one of these guys and picked up her camera to take his photo. She tells me that he wagged his finger at her - she was surprised, and put the camera down. She picked the camera up again, and he did it again. She said that she realised it was not part of the act, and said ok. She came overr to where I was standing and explained that he had stopped her from taking a photo. I aked her what she had done and told her I was surprised. We stopped taking photos and just started watching others do so.
    At that point, the man she had approached took off his mask and walked very deliberately over to us. He stood very close to my friend and said, in what I would describe as a firm, tending towards aggressive, way "I DID NOT give you permission to photograph me and therefore YOU CAN'T". He walked away.
    We were very surprised and embarassed.
    The street was packed and we we were not the only people taking his photograph.
    So, what was it about us that could have made him react in such a way, and what should we have done to prevent it? My friend didn't take his photo - she walked away - so why did he come over?
    If someone's act is to remain completly still/ behave in a deliberatelt strange manner, are you supposed to try and engage them? I have taken photos here on other occasions - we did it on an ePz meet, for example, with no problems.
    I don't understand what we had done differently from anyone else, or what we should have done to prevent it.
    Should I devise a special "blink once for yes" code in the event I meet another human statue?

    I feel a bit aggrieved because my friend and I are two of the most timid photographers I know! When we set off, we talked about the issues of taking candid pics of children, with or without their parents, and decided to stick to the "safe" subjects. It may sound pathetic to some of you, but we spent ages plucking up the courage to go out taking photos together, and I thought that my previous ePz experiences in London had stood me in good stead - it appears not.

    So, I am confused and put-off. No one was hurt, no lives were lost, and in the scheme of things it's quite small ... but it's being replayed in my head as a nasty experience and a warning not to take photos, even if everyone else seems to. I didn't even finish one film on Saturday and we went home a little sad.

    Katie
    :o(

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    4 May 2005 - 1:49 AM

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    digicammad
    digicammad (e2 Member)
    8
    21547 forum postsdigicammad vcard United Kingdom35 Constructive Critique Points
    4 May 2005 - 1:56 AM
    0

    Maybe he looked at the equipment you were carrying and assumed you were commercial photographers. His attitude however was totally out of order. I don't know why people who deliberately make themselves a spectacle get so uptight!

    Ian

    Hi Katie

    Seems very odd behaviour. He cannot actually prevent you from taking photos if you (the photographer) is on "public" ground although obviously you don't want a confrontation so your friend acted in an appropriate manner. He may have reacted differently if your friend had given money (most of them are there for that reason)

    Ironically, you may well find that he was actually in a precarious position himself as many if not most of these street entertainers perform without a licence/permission so are in fact breaking the law.

    It is sad though that he behaved that way. My experience of the same sort of entertainers in Bath has been the complete opposite in that they will actually strike a pose for you

    Barrie Smile

    gemm
    7
    800 forum posts United Kingdom
    4 May 2005 - 1:57 AM
    0

    When I was there a few weeks ago, it looked like most of them were willing to pose for you. If I were you, I'd just forget about it. It was his problem, not yours.

    dark_lord
    4 May 2005 - 2:01 AM
    0

    Sorry to hear that. You were not doing anything wrong. What do these people expect, as they put themselves on display.

    rletham
    4 May 2005 - 2:03 AM
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    I don't think this incident had anything to do with photography Katie. Unfortunately, there are those people out there who are bullys and like to assert their authority on people that they feel they can intimidate. He probably shouts at little old ladies when they get in the way of him running for a bus. Don't take it to heart, we have a few people around like that.

    They're called Gits.

    juliem
    7
    613 forum posts
    4 May 2005 - 2:04 AM
    0

    I know what you mean-I was once walking along a canal bank and just stopped without thinking a took a shot of one of the boats doors,when I lowered my camera the owner was standing looking at me quite sternly so I apologised and and tried to flatter them with what a wonderful,marvelllous door they had etc. In the end they were o.k. about it but it did embarrass me and on reflection I know I should have asked first as it was their front door after all!
    I think Barrie may have a point there-maybe a lack of license on the models' part?No need for him to intimidate though.
    Julie

    digicammad
    digicammad (e2 Member)
    8
    21547 forum postsdigicammad vcard United Kingdom35 Constructive Critique Points
    4 May 2005 - 2:07 AM
    0

    That's a good point Julie. My brother lives on a canal and people with cameras do tend to forget that, although the boat may be beautiful, it is their home. If somebody walked up and started photographing your house up close you may not like it very much.

    If the owner is about I try to remember to ask first.

    That doesn't apply to people who are putting themselves on public display though.

    Ian

    jimbo_t
    4 May 2005 - 2:09 AM
    0

    He was probably gay, maybe he would let a bloke take his photo, you know how up their own arses these thesps are!
    Jim

    KatieR
    KatieR (e2 Member)
    8
    6197 forum postsKatieR vcard 6 Constructive Critique Points
    4 May 2005 - 2:11 AM
    0

    Oh well done, Jimbot! Very politically correct! LOL!

    Thanks for all your comments - I am much rallied by your responses. I'll pass these on to my friend - unfortunately this was the first time that she had been out for the day just to take photos, and I encouraged her to do it, so she was a bit upset.

    Some of the entertainers in these areas are paid in part by the management committees, others may or may not be licensed, as you say, and I am certain that none rely soley on their takings for their bread and butter. Sometimes I give money, sometimes I don't. Some don't display a place to leave money, others pass a bucket round. They are all different and it's impossible to know what they want.

    I respect the idea of copyright to a costume idea, perhaps, but in such a public place I can't see how it would stack up.

    Oh, and we hardly have high-tech equipment - my friend's old F801 is covered in sellotape and my Eos3 is rather greasy!!

    Katie


    Quote: He was probably gay, maybe he would let a bloke take his photo

    I'm sorry Jim, but I have to say that unless uou are joking (and you haven't added any smilies) then that is a stupid thing to say that only reinforces bigotry that we can well do without.

    Would heterosexual males not photograph him then?

    Barrie Smile

    answersonapostcard
    answersonapostcard (Site Moderator)
    8
    11743 forum postsanswersonapostcard vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
    4 May 2005 - 2:20 AM
    0

    I never used to worry about taking photographs anywhere, now my first thought when taking my camera out of the bag is - will anyone complain. I sympathise Katy, I'm naturally very shy and that would have reduced me to tears I think.

    raziel_uk
    4 May 2005 - 2:33 AM
    0


    Quote: My brother lives on a canal and people with cameras do tend to forget that, although the boat may be beautiful, it is their home. If somebody walked up and started photographing your house up close you may not like it very much.

    If the owner is about I try to remember to ask first.

    As the law stands, you are perfectly entitled to take photos of anything if you are standing on public ground - even of a private property if you can take that shot without a zoom lens. Therefore, technically people living on canel boats are at the mercy of this law. However, it never hurts to ask.

    Going back to the original point - did the performers/artists have a hat for people to put money in and did you put money in before you tried taking shots.

    I guess it may also have been that you were two and in your own words, timid female photographers so he knew he could exhert his authority over you.

    Ashley

    KatieR
    KatieR (e2 Member)
    8
    6197 forum postsKatieR vcard 6 Constructive Critique Points
    4 May 2005 - 2:34 AM
    0

    Ashley - I didn't see a hat, no. And he could easily have gestured to it, if that was the issue!

    K - We were so embarassed - you'd have seen it on our faces! My friend Luciana is still worrying about it - she said that it has put her off doing people photography and she'll stick to buildings!

    I guess I was lucky to have done my first photo day-out in a bigger group (yey ePz!!!), and I felt quite safe and happy. I still didn't have the nerve to take candid shots, for example, but I saw others doing it with no problems. Equally, I saw that sometimes ordinary people, just going about their ordinary business, can be quite aware that you are taking their photo and have no problem with it. I just wish I had more confidence to try and also to take the occasional knock-back!

    Katie

    jimbo_t
    4 May 2005 - 2:35 AM
    0

    Whoops sorry!
    Only joking, poking fun at actors rather than Homosexuals.
    Thats my rugby club background, speak first think later.
    Jim
    PS must remember about those smilies!

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