Login or Join Now

Upload your photos, chat, win prizes and much more

Username:
Password:
Remember Me

Can't Access your Account?

New to ePHOTOzine? Join ePHOTOzine for free!

Like 0

PC or Mac?

Join Now

Join ePHOTOzine, the friendliest photography community.

Upload photos, chat with photographers, win prizes and much more for free!

mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
5 Feb 2009 - 4:04 PM


Quote: Apple gear looks the way it does because a lot of thought goes into the design and the choice of materials. Open the box and as much thought is given to the internals as it is to the shell. Open the average PC and, frankly, it's a bit of a mess.

As the man said...

Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links 
5 Feb 2009 - 4:04 PM

Join ePHOTOzine for free and remove these adverts.

strawman
strawman  1022010 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
5 Feb 2009 - 4:38 PM

I am aware of that Jools some of it is good design and some of it is compromises forced by styling decisions. For example if you constrain the size you compromise your electronics options.

What you need to ask is what is the purpose of the design. For example my home PC is a nice design for service and flexibility. Open the simple side case, two finger screws remove it and I can access the internals, that is good. On the motherboard I can see the 4 RAM slots, yes 4 off direct access without having to disturb anything. On the side I can mount 4 off drives. Again the motherboard has the connectors in a good clear area. There is good heatsinking of the dives and an airflow path. The power cables are neatly routed around to make adding or removing a drive easy.

There are vents in the case for airflow and a smart fan control system to make it run quietly and at a controlled level. The power supply is nicely separated from the rest of the design, again good for reliability and also EMC. So in total 6 screws and two connectors will fit or remove any drive. Two screws to allow Memory upgrade.

Now is it pretty to look at, no not really, but I can see someone has thought about service and maintenance plus cooling has been given a high priority, so I feel confident reliability has been thought of also. The heatsinks are fairly well designed and I can also see some ducting for airflow.

So it sort of depends with what sort of eyes you look at the product. I am not saying Apple is bad, but asking you to separate out what the design elements are.

I have spent plenty of times on products looking at design, and now a days it is quite common to have stylists also contribute to the design, because it impacts customer perception. Very often it does not impact build quality or reliability, unless the styling has lead to design changes.

For example using smaller hard disks which have more problems managing heat and have to either compromise capacity, performance, or life, or even both. It is possible for a design to be better to look at than an alternative, but less reliable.

Last Modified By strawman at 5 Feb 2009 - 4:49 PM
Term
Term e2 Member 885 forum postsTerm vcard England9 Constructive Critique Points
5 Feb 2009 - 4:46 PM

Personally I cant stand macs, purely because I am not used to them, and I am totally used to using windows based os. I could learn to use a mac, but I dont want to.
Plus I play a lot of games, and thats the main reason I own and built my pc, and as far as I know most games still rnt available on macs.
So for me personally a mac will never be a viable option. So as most people say, it always depends on what you want it for. My sister has a mac and loves it. Does all she wants, and its stable.

My only slight critism, is that SOMETIMES, (not people like you stolzy before you jump down my throat) people like macs, simply to be different, without knowing the pros and conns of both options. But like most of my friends who own macs, they dont use a computer deep enough to care because internet use is just about the same on any system.

Last Modified By Term at 5 Feb 2009 - 4:48 PM
mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
5 Feb 2009 - 4:52 PM

You're missing the point, John.

You appear to be arguing that Apple decide first and foremost to make something "pretty", and then have to cut corners on the engineering to make that work.

What Apple claim to do - and I would argue it's a reasonable claim - is to design to a set goal for what they believe the product should achieve. For example, a laptop is a portable device. It follows from that that it would be a good idea for it to be reasonably compact and light, plus strong. That they look sleek and stylish too is a secondary aspect of the design. I'm not claiming that they don't think it's important that it looks good - it does matter. For one thing, it makes their products distinctive, draws attention, and helps to get more potential customers looking at them.

Most people, who don't need or want to build their own, or want to have the ability to upgrade every component themselves, find a lot to be gained in having a desktop computer that doesn't take up a huge amount of space with a case that consists largely of empty space. The current iMacs are consequently slim, with heat management being handled (perfectly acceptably) by a combination of air flow using both convection and low-speed fans so that it remains quiet. The air flow through the system is an integral part of the design consideration, drawn in through the bottom of the case, and vented at the top. In a home environment, compactness and quietness are desirable for a good many people.

Last Modified By mdpontin at 5 Feb 2009 - 4:57 PM
strawman
strawman  1022010 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
5 Feb 2009 - 4:58 PM

I never said cut corners. The decide it has to be a certain size and engineer it to fit that. I also said it cost more, that is not cutting corners.

Design is about where you make compromises to get the best fit to requirements. My point is Apple have introduced Laptop like requirements on the desk top. That brings compromises. A lap top compromises certain things over a desk top for size and lower power consumption.

That is not to say all those things are bad but to recognise the compromises. It is for you to decide if it gives you the product you want. I also said I admire some aspects of the Apple business model and successes. But then I also admire people who make a living from selling wine for over 100 a bottle. Does not mean I would buy from them or that I think the wine is bad.

Last Modified By strawman at 5 Feb 2009 - 5:01 PM
mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
5 Feb 2009 - 5:22 PM


Quote: My point is Apple have introduced Laptop like requirements on the desk top.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "laptop-like requirements". Could you elaborate?


Quote: Design is about where you make compromises to get the best fit to requirements.

Yes, as anyone with a modicum of knowledge about industrial design could tell you. However, just because you would have made different compromises doesn't mean their choices were wrong.


Quote: I also said I admire some aspects of the Apple business model and successes. But then I also admire people who make a living from selling wine for over 100 a bottle.

If they're selling wine at that price because that's deemed by the target market to be an acceptable price given the quality of the product, then that's fine. Again though, there's a danger of a remark like this giving rise to the inference that people can only get away with such a business model by exploiting the gullible. Personally, I think I'm far from gullible when it comes to choosing the best computer system for me. And there are many others, too, who also choose Macs, who know exactly what they're doing and are not simply beguiled by "prettiness" or the mythical aura of Steve Jobs, or a need to have the shiniest toys. Smile

Last Modified By mdpontin at 5 Feb 2009 - 5:23 PM
tepot
tepot  104416 forum posts United Kingdom
5 Feb 2009 - 5:45 PM

i was about to change over from P.C to mac untill i saw the price difference.

joolsb
joolsb  927115 forum posts Switzerland38 Constructive Critique Points
5 Feb 2009 - 5:52 PM


Quote: I was about to change over from P.C to mac untill i saw the price difference.


Fair point. Some people won't buy wine at a tenner a bottle, reckoning that a 3 special from Asda is just as good.... Wink

Last Modified By joolsb at 5 Feb 2009 - 5:52 PM
keith selmes
5 Feb 2009 - 5:57 PM


Quote: Some people won't buy wine at a tenner a bottle, reckoning that a 3 special from Asda is just as good.

I'd buy 3 bottles of Newcastle Brown for 4.
Which for me pretty well sums up the mac v pc dichotomy.

Snapper
Snapper  93766 forum posts United States Minor Outlying Islands3 Constructive Critique Points
5 Feb 2009 - 5:59 PM


Quote:
Fair point. Some people won't buy wine at a tenner a bottle, reckoning that a 3 special from Asda is just as good....

Life is simpler/more complicated nowadays though. Tesco is full of wine that they are advertising as being halfprice, so your tenner bottle is only a fiver, but does it ever really taste like a tenner bottle? Hmmm.

digicammad
digicammad  1121988 forum posts United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
5 Feb 2009 - 6:00 PM


Quote: Quote:
I was about to change over from P.C to mac untill i saw the price difference.

Fair point. Some people won't buy wine at a tenner a bottle, reckoning that a 3 special from Asda is just as good....

10 wine often isn't as good as it looks and 3 wine is often better than it looks. Smile

mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
5 Feb 2009 - 6:23 PM


Quote: Tesco is full of wine...

I really hope not! Wink

seahawk
seahawk e2 Member 7576 forum postsseahawk vcard United Kingdom
5 Feb 2009 - 6:39 PM

I have an iMac - I would never buy a PC (I do use a PC at work). Why - colour rendition on the Mac is better and my Mac never crashes; my wife's PC has given her a lot of trouble.
All the software I need is available for Mac.
Enough said!

digicammad
digicammad  1121988 forum posts United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
5 Feb 2009 - 6:41 PM


Quote: Enough said!

You really think so? This could go on for another 100 pages (and usually does).

Smile

tepot
tepot  104416 forum posts United Kingdom
5 Feb 2009 - 7:50 PM


Quote: Quote:Quote:
I was about to change over from P.C to mac untill i saw the price difference.

Fair point. Some people won't buy wine at a tenner a bottle, reckoning that a 3 special from Asda is just as good.... 10 wine often isn't as good as it looks and 3 wine is often better than it looks. Smile

you don't always get what you pay for in this world.

Add a Comment

You must be a member to leave a comment

Username:
Password:
Remember me:
Un-tick this box if you want to login each time you visit.