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Photographers jobs at risk with sneaky ideas.

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ianrobinson
ianrobinson e2 Member 41107 forum postsianrobinson vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
21 Jan 2012 - 8:46 AM

WARNING TO ALL PHOTOGRAPHERS:


We have a local Newspaper here in Norfolk called the EDP that has started to ask jo public to put images in there paper for free have a look and see what you think.
http://norfolk.iwitness24.co.uk/
They have been very cunning here with getting the public to put in there own news images and images relating to news there are a few of us photographers in Norfolk that believe they are going to if not already dramatically reducing there photographers and using the public instead for free.
The second bit that is just as cunning is that all rights of the photo that you put on the EDP sight are there's and you will have no say no control over what they do to your images.
People are failing to read the small print other than some of the pros i know who have now stopped using the site after putting a couple of unimportant photos to check this new site out.
Have a read on there small printed terms and make your own minds up this comes from a reliable source from within the company.

Contributions/Notice Board/Chat Room

By submitting any material to Archant, You automatically grant Archant the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable right and license to use, reproduce, modify, edit, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such material (in whole or part) worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed for the full term of any rights that may exist in such content. You acknowledge:



we may select or reject any material for publication at Our sole discretion and no correspondence will be entered into.
material submitted by You may be published in any publication or Website produced or published by Archant Group and/or may be supplied by Us for publication by third parties at Our discretion.
you are over 18 years of age and You are the bill payer or have the permission of the bill payer to send Us the material.
your email address and password are personal to You and You must not allow anyone else to use them.
you must not impersonate any other user of the website or do anything to assist an unregistered user to gain access to the website.
that use of Your personal data by Us is subject to Our Data Protection and Privacy Policy.
You further agree that by submitting any material to Us, You also waive all Your moral rights in such materials and agree not to contribute any material:

that is threatening, defamatory, intentionally offensive abusive, liable to incite racial hatred, pornographic, obscene, in breach of confidence, in breach of privacy; or
that is discriminatory against race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or gender; or
for which You have not obtained all necessary licences and/or approvals; or
which constitutes or encourages conduct that would be considered a criminal offence, give rise to civil liability, or otherwise be contrary to the law of or infringe the rights of any third party, in the UK; or
that is in breach of the rights of any third party; or
which is technically harmful (including, without limitation, computer viruses, logic bombs, Trojan horses, worms, harmful components, corrupted data or other malicious software or harmful data) You further agree that if You knowingly send any material which is technically harmful that Archant retains the right at its sole discretion to pursue You for all legal fees (including its own and those of any third party), damages and other expenses that may be incurred as a result of Your actions; or
that makes any commercial or business use of the website or post any material which comprises advertising promotional or marketing material of any kind, nor will You set up any links from the Website to any other website; or
that is not original to You and You grant Us a royalty-free irrevocable and perpetual licence to use, reproduce in whole or in part, modify and adapt such material and authorize others to do so in any media now known or in future developed in any part of the world; and
that You understand and agree that any breach of these warranties may cause Us damage and loss and You agree to indemnify Us and keep Us at all times fully indemnified from and against all claims, costs, loss or damage incurred by Us directly or indirectly as a result of any material posted by You on the website or any use by You of the website.

Make your own minds up but.

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21 Jan 2012 - 8:46 AM

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Ade_Osman
Ade_Osman  114484 forum posts England36 Constructive Critique Points
21 Jan 2012 - 9:35 AM

It's exactly the same with our local newspapers and I've a feeling very similar to anything image or video you might upload to the TV companies such as the BBC, ITV and Sky news networks. Which is why I don't very often upload images to such things as Spring/Autumnwatch and similar such programs. I may have a punt with the BBC Countryfile competition and similar such stuff, but only because that's a competition and there may be, if lucky a reward for your work.

The local BBC News programme and website is exactly the same, they ask you to upload images to them of local sights and wildlife. So they can use it as a background while they broadcast the weather. But once they have an image they then feel Carte Blanche to post and use anywhere they see fit, one big con if you ask me! As I found to my cost a few years ago.......

Ade

KevSB
KevSB  101403 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
21 Jan 2012 - 9:39 AM

Not sure what the problem is, This is quite legal to do, they are openly showing you the conditions and people have the right not to add pictures, those that do agree.

We live in a different world now with millions opf cameras and people wishing to share there images, It is there choice, Me you and others dont have to right to tell them that is Right or wrong. It is there time, money and choice and not sure on what grounds we can tell them that what they enjoy is wrong.

These conditions are becoming the norm will become more so in future, Its a natural occurence of the internet making the world a much smaller place. If someone wants a garrenteed quality picture they will pay for it and that is the only exclusivity that a top photographer can offer.

I give all mine away for free as I choose to do, In doing so ive made a new life style , made lifelong friends and get opportunitys now I only dreamed of. peing paid wouldent even cover the advantages and benefits i get back from my actions.

A different Vuewpoint form some here I realise but honest and up to date in the real world

adrian_w
adrian_w e2 Member 63272 forum postsadrian_w vcard Scotland4 Constructive Critique Points
21 Jan 2012 - 9:48 AM

Why not write to Archant & ask them to send you free copies of all their magazines in perpetuity. When they complain, point out to them that that's what they're doing with the photographs.

big fella
big fella  10485 forum posts England
21 Jan 2012 - 10:02 AM

Why not include a counter condition when submitting anything to them. If they subsequently use the item without countering your counter offer, then they have accepted your conditions and then will not have the right of free use!

John_Frid
John_Frid  8514 forum posts United Kingdom56 Constructive Critique Points
21 Jan 2012 - 10:04 AM

I fully appreciate that those who have previously made a living out of selling images may not like this type of activity, but there is nothing wrong or even immoral with the practice in general.

However, where I do feel there is a problem is where the terms and conditions are not in plain simple to understand language, or where they are particularly and unreasonably hidden away. Assuming that the organisation asking for images is good on these two points then it is not their fault if people don't actually read the terms and conditions.

Having read the particular terms and conditions you have highlighted I feel they aren't what I would be happy to be subject to so I will not be submitting images. However, others may be happy with these T's & C's and if they are then that is fine.

Many people are happy to share their images free of charge, and are delighted to see them published or displayed. They may have no real concerns about such T's & C's and be happy to go along with them. In these cases both the organiser and participant are happy.

John_Frid
John_Frid  8514 forum posts United Kingdom56 Constructive Critique Points
21 Jan 2012 - 10:08 AM


Quote: Why not include a counter condition when submitting anything to them. If they subsequently use the item without countering your counter offer, then they have accepted your conditions and then will not have the right of free use!

Nice idea big fella, but they have thought of that.. see conditions below.

1. By using the services of http://norfolk.iwitness24.co.uk/ , you expressly acknowledge and accept, without any reservation, the present Terms and Conditions of Use (the “TCU”). If you do not accept to be bound by the TCU, do not use and access the sections of this Website and the services it provides.
2. IWITNESS24 reserves the right to partially or fully revise the TCU at its own discretion and at any time. Any such modifications take effect as of the date of their posting on the Website. Your use of the Website from that date implies your acceptance and acknowledgement of the TCU as revised.
3. If you consider that the revised TCU are not or no longer acceptable, then do not use the Website.

thewilliam
21 Jan 2012 - 11:20 AM

There have been many discussions about the zero value of photographs. Archant and the others can use their T&Cs in the safe knowledge that enough punters will be happy to give their work in exchange for the thrill of seeing it published.

danbrann
danbrann e2 Member 9470 forum postsdanbrann vcard 15 Constructive Critique Points
21 Jan 2012 - 11:42 AM

I think as photographers we must decide.. Do we want our name on a cheque or our name next to a pic in the paper......... I know which I prefer

thewilliam
21 Jan 2012 - 1:04 PM

When faced with a request for a free pic, one friend pointed out that the 9 digit number on his letterhead showed he was registered for VAT rather than as a Charity!

pentaxpete
21 Jan 2012 - 2:16 PM

Archant owns the local 'Romford Recorder' Group and I used to get some work with them especially as I was the only Freelance in Brentwood and could supply to the 'Brentwood Recorder' one or two jobs a week at £25 a go -- but two years ago it ALL STOPPED -- 'No Budget for Freelancers' any more -- they want FREE photos and GET them from the Council girl and any company having events supplies their own photos free - they have ONE Staff Photographer to cover all the areas the Recorder covers including Romford, Upminster, Hornchurch, Rainham, Brentwood . Archant is very crafty -- it owns many magazines as well as newspapers and will not pay any more -- snappers can earn more doing cleaning at £6 - 7 an hour or shelf stacking in Tesco !

ianrobinson
ianrobinson e2 Member 41107 forum postsianrobinson vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
21 Jan 2012 - 2:50 PM

We all need to value our Images and rights because it's not just the image we are letting the whole world see but the rights to that image and any sales from that image, it is extremely important for pro photographers who want exposure to read these term and conditions if you value your Images.
I hate sly crafty sneaky companies that are willing to steal your image as this is pretty much what they will do to anyone who is unsuspecting and does not read the term and conditions.
One of my photos was in the EDP last night and although nice to see i since learnt of the terms and conditions, now i have lost all rights to that image, so all i am saying is be careful what images you use if you want to send in photos, if it's some of your best work I would think again.
I have plans for my images to go into a book and now there's at least 4 images I cannot use without Archents approval no doubt.

macroman
macroman  1115312 forum posts England
21 Jan 2012 - 5:11 PM

Just because you have granted Archant free use of your images doesn't neccesarily mean that you have lost your rights to use your images as you see fit.
You probably still own the copyright.

User_Removed
21 Jan 2012 - 5:13 PM

For several years I wrote a monthly two- or three-page article for one of Archant's titles - Sporting Shooter. The terms for payment for the article were fixed in advance and they always paid extra if I supplied photographs and they used them. But I notice that another of their titles - Photography Monthly - uses a lot of "free" photographs. Every month they publish a "Readers Gallery" type of feature where they give a prize of a memory card to the "Editor's Choice" and pay nothing for the remainder.

But, as has been said above, the important factor is that the T&Cs are clear - then photographers can decide whether or not they send them images.

The trap we must avoid falling into is to suggest that professional or freelance photographers have a "right" to exist. They do not. They only have an opportunity to make money from photography if there is a market for their work. Advancing technology is changing such markets continuously and some "jobs" disappear and other emerge. 30 years ago, no-one could have made a living as a web designer. If digital photography means that much of the market for photographs can now be met by amateurs who are willing to provide images in exchange for the joy of seeing their pictures in print or on-line, then that is that. No point crying over spilt milk. The world is changing and will continue to change. Some of us may regret some of the changes some of the time but that does not give us a right to impede progress or, indeed, define what "progress" is.

MikeRC
MikeRC e2 Member 93485 forum postsMikeRC vcard United Kingdom
21 Jan 2012 - 5:33 PM

....I think it is an excellent idea and if it were a paper local to me and I was credited with my pictures I would gladly submit some photos:

....At least then I may get judged against the worst photographers as opposed to, very unfairly, I often think, Smile
..... the best of EPZ.

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