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31 Jan 2012 11:14PM
Advise you take a different consultant next time Ade!

(only kidding) Wink

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ade_mcfade e2
10 15.1k 216 England
31 Jan 2012 11:20PM
always good to give someone a chance, isnt' it? Wink
31 Jan 2012 11:29PM
Some chance ! Grin
ade_mcfade e2
10 15.1k 216 England
31 Jan 2012 11:30PM
he he - you first Wink
ianrobinson e2
5 1.2k 8 United Kingdom
31 Jan 2012 11:33PM
Sooty unless you have an image on your pf i am not even going to answer you from now on as you clearly don't have room to talk.
But i will answer this one for you.
I personally found photography far easier to achieve than cabinet making and you sooty have not been reading properly, I make the kitchens not just fit or design them.
I don't have space on this site to give a full description of what makes photography easier than cabinet making but hey why don't you try cabinet making and not just the pine stuff but proper furniture you know like veneering pippy oak panels doing circle work for doors and frames to fit those doors.
All what you see on that photo of the kitchen is hand made from scratch do you even understand what that means and how long it takes to create each component like the curved corners and the **** beading as well as the frame work that goes on the fronts of all the cabinets then you got the carcases to make too, then there's all the doors of which there's 5 components to each door to think about and make then the drawers of which again are solid English oak dovetailed front and back, there's 6 components to them, then there's all the internals like hand made cutlery systems, knife blokes, spice racks for backs of larder doors, all the magic corners to go in the baskets the integrated soft close bins plus all the fitting of the doors and drawers that have 1mm gap all round otherwise they are rejected, then there's the finishing of which it is all sprayed in our spray booths by us using the best products on the market this on an average kitchen takes 3 days to finish every coat is wet and dried to achieve the very best finish the kitchen gets no less than 6 coats of paint then and only then are we ready to put handles on and finally install being careful to scribe into all walls weather they need it or not we also scribe the plinth if needed too it takes on average 3 days to fit our kitchens with 2 people fitting we never sub our kitchens out because although you lot think kitchens are easy to fit well there not if you do them properly as we know to our cost of a kitchen fitting company that did one of ours and we had no end of problems with them that in the end we had to finish it our selves.
All in all it takes an average of 3 weeks doing 6 day weeks to create a kitchen from scratch to the fitted item, i hope this answers your question in short sooty.

Hence my last comment Ignorance is bliss.
ianrobinson e2
5 1.2k 8 United Kingdom
31 Jan 2012 11:41PM
oh yes well pointed out ade we did end up on Kitchens, not what it was all meant to be about and that's a discussion on the lively hoods of photographers, weird.
keithh e2
11 23.4k 33 Wallis And Futuna
1 Feb 2012 5:49AM
I brought kitchens into the equation. I did so to illustrate a point - one of your own as it happens. At the start of the thread you were bemoaning the fact that a local newspaper was undermining the photographic income.

I used the fact that you were teaching photography (or offering to) even though your knowledge of that skill is limited. This is why I asked you how long before I could teach kitchen design?

If I went out today and built a cabinet, I might look at it and think its pretty damn good but you may come along and point out areas where it's let down, regardless of the fact that I thought it was fairly easy to learn the basic skills. In other words, I would suggest that you would think that a cabinet maker would have to have several years of experience behind them to teach others (and of course be able to teach) - I believe the same is true of teaching photography.
ianrobinson e2
5 1.2k 8 United Kingdom
1 Feb 2012 8:26AM
That's not really a fair point is it Keith, basically you are assuming I know nothing of photography to teach others when actually i do know enough, I may not take the best image in the world but I know all the fundamentals of photography and more than enough to be able to teach someone who does not know all the fundamentals, In my honest opinion i would say teaching if you have the knowledge is easier than doing it your self, after all it's only words but the correct ones at that.
What makes you believe i cannot teach someone else Keith, we are not all slow learners I have a father in law who has wrote books and is quite a famous guy in Norfolk for his aerial photography that has helped me along my way too apart from doing a university degree in photography and before that doing 3 courses on the subject.
Assumptions are the mother of all mess ups are they not Keith, i don't pretend to know everything there is to know about photography or cabinet making and i would be a fool to say otherwise but the knowledge is well and truly there to teach others who don't know.
Ask me what ever you like that i would need to teach another person and i would give you the Answer it's not rocket science in my honest opinion, mind you common sense clearly seems to be.
Sooty_1 4 1.3k 203 United Kingdom
1 Feb 2012 8:36AM
But you did answer me.....?

Are you saying that it is harder and more worthy to be a kitchen fitter than a photographer?

I'm just using kitchens as an example (as they had already been mentioned) to suggest that if everyone thought it was easy, they would all be doing it-whatever "it" turned out to be. Your responses suggest that you would be mightily upset if everyone started making kitchens and stole your business - because they wouldn't be as good as you.

Also, I didn't think I needed to have pictures on my profile to have an opinion?

Can of worms time.....: Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Discuss!
Sooty_1 4 1.3k 203 United Kingdom
1 Feb 2012 8:36AM
TongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueWink
answersonapostcard e2
10 12.7k 15 United Kingdom
1 Feb 2012 8:38AM

Quote:Also, I didn't think I needed to have pictures on my profile to have an opinion?
Correct Smile
mikehit e2
5 7.1k 11 United Kingdom
1 Feb 2012 8:39AM

Quote:
I prefer the Brain Surgeon analogy...

You've carved a few joints, spatchcocked the odd chicken, so got a great foundation for teaching the future brain surgeons



Damn. I was wondering why my consultant had some feathers in his turn-ups.
Oh, well...too late nowTongue
keithh e2
11 23.4k 33 Wallis And Futuna
1 Feb 2012 8:47AM

Quote:In my honest opinion i would say teaching if you have the knowledge is easier than doing it your self, after all it's only words but the correct ones at that.


I won't answer that, Ian. I'll let others judge those words.


Quote:What makes you believe i cannot teach someone else Keith,


Like you say, "Its just words" and I would say that from the way you input your own that your teaching methods may be the same. Teaching is not "just words". When I joined the Institute for Learners and began their Teaching Courses I very quickly realised that there were methods of getting knowledge across that I was blissfully unaware of.

One of the reasons I cut back on the workshops I offered was that every Tom, **** and Harry with minimal experience and knowledge started offering to teach others. I never assume...I do have the ability to read and judge though.
KathyW 11 1.8k 12 Norfolk Island
1 Feb 2012 10:12AM
Ian - you own a successful kitchen company and do not need to earn money from photography, so why are you offering workshops/selling prints/offering your services as a photographer? Why not leave all that to the professionals and simply enjoy your hobby?
theorderingone 10 2.4k United Kingdom
1 Feb 2012 12:55PM

Quote:Like you say, "Its just words" and I would say that from the way you input your own that your teaching methods may be the same. Teaching is not "just words". When I joined the Institute for Learners and began their Teaching Courses I very quickly realised that there were methods of getting knowledge across that I was blissfully unaware of.


I'm pretty sure Ian will have studied different learning styles, and how to engage them. That's unless he only teaches Kinesthetic Learners? Wink

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