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Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318430 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
12 Mar 2012 - 9:38 AM

I just read an interesting comment from an exhibitor at Focus on Imaging who was questioning the way some of the "visitors" behaved at studio and photo shoot set ups this year. It's where photographers demonstrate how they use equipment with the aid of a professional model, and in the past its been an opportunity for passing visitors to get snaps, but this year there's been an increase in those who would yell and interrupt the photographer and models to try and emulate paparazzi in directing models. Hes says in some cases where a crush developed with a mass of photographers crowding in, models did become scared and worried.

He suggests that there's some level of self control used next year, otherwise there's a risk of having enclosed and chargeable demonstrations or security where people are refused the opportunity to take photographs!

It made me think this sort of thing is happening widespread now. We hear about opportunities being closed down due to the behavior and numbers of photographers. Consider street photography which is becoming much more popular, the beach photography at Donna Nook, reenactments and dress ups such as the Whitby Goth event or working museums. These events used to take place and people with cameras would just wander around and take snaps.

But the internet is changing all that. In the past you were lucky if you saw the results from the cameras. Now they are posted all over the internet. They become adverts for places to get good pictures and the competition begins - to get a better shot than the next. So where the seals were safe at Donna Nook, now the photographers trample all over the beach to try to obtain better natural shots or close ups and in doing so threaten the birth rates and force the introduction of the ban of entering such areas. The good looking Goths get drag in to the church yard to spend an hour being photographed by a group of photographers, resulting in the council considering banning people in the graveyard, etc etc.

It's interesting that events such as Tough Guy do make it harder for public to access. Could this become a more widespread attitude?

Not sure what the answer is, but you now need to spot unique stuff quickly before its popularity kills the opportunity. And maybe we need to change how we do things to prevent a ban on future subjects.

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12 Mar 2012 - 9:38 AM

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Coleslaw
Coleslaw e2 Member 813402 forum postsColeslaw vcard Wales28 Constructive Critique Points
12 Mar 2012 - 9:50 AM

I always say that photography is a competitive sport...Wink

Unfortunately with digital camera becomes more and more affordable, and the popularity social networking/sharing websites, it is inevitable.


Quote: It made me think this sort of thing is happening widespread now

Yeap, see that every year in Skomer.


Quote: Tough Guy do make it harder for public to access

Well, they do charge for public to get in as spectators. But other than that, I can't say it is hard to get in at all.

And yes, it was chaos at those stands with lighting and models. And yes, I thought it was worse than last year.


Quote: You now need to spot unique stuff quickly before its popularity kills the opportunity

Absolutely.


Quote: And maybe we need to change how we do things to prevent a ban on future subjects.

Definitely.

Overread
Overread  63746 forum posts England18 Constructive Critique Points
12 Mar 2012 - 10:01 AM

I think we've always had people in photographer who get camera blind - that is they become blind to everything around them and focus only on getting the shot - as well as people who simply lack any sense of manners or spacial awareness. So I don't think its something new in that regard its just that we've a whole lot more of them these days and its a whole lot easier to for them to gather at key locations and mob things.

Personally I think the best way to tackle it isn't to enforce harsher laws or rules or restrictions - those kind of work and are certainly, from event or property owners, the easiest way to directly tackle the problem - but in the end all that does is push those people into other areas. It pushes the problem around rather than actually dealing with it- esp since in many cases its going to be one or two who encourage the others on (they act one way and others around assume its ok and thus emulate).

I'd think the best thing is to strengthen the associations between photographers (esp the newer ones who might not be so overt in seeking out other photographers directly) and through a greater unity promote better education and self policing (as it were) of behaviour and manners.


To take a specific example - consider the seals - as mentioned the increased popularity combined with ease of access results in increased pressure, however I would argue that on an individual level the people causing problems are mostly doing so through a state of ignorance rather than intent. The same could easily be said for many of the other situations - loan and small groups don't consider their impact as damaging. By promoting more unity and thus increasing the chances to educate more people you increase the chance that you can impose upon the individual the importance of their own actions and how detrimental effects can be avoided through small adjustments to the behaviour or actions.

dcash29
dcash29  81887 forum posts England
12 Mar 2012 - 10:02 AM


Quote: He suggests that there's some level of self control used next year, otherwise there's a risk of having enclosed and chargeable demonstrations or security where people are refused the opportunity to take photographs!

Maybe they should set out the stand with seats rather than the loonies blocking the walkways. Worked in football.

JohnParminter
12 Mar 2012 - 10:42 AM


Quote: And maybe we need to change how we do things to prevent a ban on future subjects.

I don't know but I'd like to ban any future attempts at photographing Buachaille Etive Mor from that bloody river, even you Pete must be sick of the sight of it by now and you wouldn't have to feel compelled to give it an EC ever again........


Smile

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318430 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
12 Mar 2012 - 11:00 AM

lol John I still haven't photographed it myself yet, so please no ban just yet Wink

andy_AHG
andy_AHG  5106 forum posts United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
12 Mar 2012 - 11:40 AM


Quote: And maybe we need to change how we do things to prevent a ban on future subjects.

I don't know but I'd like to ban any future attempts at photographing Buachaille Etive Mor from that bloody river, even you Pete must be sick of the sight of it by now and you wouldn't have to feel compelled to give it an EC ever again........

Smile

One day, I'm going to buy those few square yards of land on Rannoch Moor, cement a tripod in place by that little waterfall and charge 50 per hour Wink

NEWDIGIT
NEWDIGIT  3401 forum posts United Kingdom
12 Mar 2012 - 11:40 AM

As For FOCUS theres a simple answer BAN cameras from entering on public days.
Why do people find it neccesary to lug camera back packs plus the fullframe with 300-400 prime slung around their necks to an exhibition?
I gave up on the number of times the "look what Ive got" brigade pushed past without consideration for the LARGE pack on their back.
I heard people complaining that it was packed, yes it was by Packs not people.
If they want to photograph models pay for the studio and model hire costs.
Personally I did not see anything or anyone worth photographing, which was just as well as I left my camera at home where it belonged.
Ever heard of the Backpack BOMB

MrGoatsmilk
12 Mar 2012 - 11:45 AM

I found the idiots with cameras at Focus very annoying, I wanted to be able to watch and listen to the pros on the stands taking shots of the models and explaining their lighting setups as they went along.

I managed to get to one as the others I would have liked to watch were just filling the aisles with what I could only describe as old men with cameras perving for a shot for their own personal collection. I mean what other reason is there to take a shot of the model with having any control over the lighting. I even heard some lads walk past one of the stands shouting "Pervs" at them

I can understand people taking shots of the overall areas for blogs etc but did not feel the urge to take a camera as I was more interested in seeing the show.

If these people continue and ruin it for others then they should be required to leave not force it away from those who want to watch and listen and make it only available in the back rooms of the stands.

KathyW
KathyW  101793 forum posts Norfolk Island12 Constructive Critique Points
12 Mar 2012 - 12:09 PM

Going to an event like Focus is my idea of a nightmare... If I was dragged there kicking and screaming I certainly wouldn't take my camera but I might equip myself with a sturdy monopod Wink

I dislike people en masse, and I dislike it even more when they are all pushing and shoving with no consideration for others. Not sure if photographers are worse than everyone else, but they do seem to be rather lacking in consideration these days. At the few events I have attended it seems that the bigger the lens the more arrogant the owner! I'm thinking "hang on, you've got a 500 prime, shouldn't you be behind me as I've only got a 70-300, or whatever?"

On the whole, I've found that having a friendly chat with a marshal or steward can get you just the other side of the barrier as long as it's safe and you don't push it, just get the shot you want and move away... Smile It helps if you can look pathetic and like you're about to burst into tears, and you don't even have to be young and pretty Tongue... sorry guys, but you do have to be female...

answersonapostcard
answersonapostcard Site Moderator 1012518 forum postsanswersonapostcard vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
12 Mar 2012 - 12:17 PM

Just have male models that would calm things down a bit Grin

And why not have security guards, if people cant self regulate then it will have to be done for them.

I remember one year one at Focus a man was acting really strangely, trying to get this model to one side (or rather around a corner where no one could see) and was aided by his wife. He wanted to take her picture, not just a portrait but topless.

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318430 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
12 Mar 2012 - 12:17 PM

I've mentioned in another thread that is a photography show so why not take your cameras? referring to those who would take a VW to a VW show. Someone in the debate I pulled the original point from said I don't turn up to a divers show in a a diving suit, snorkel and flippers, which is a fair alternative view.

But the thing is exhibitors at Focus have made it more attractive for photographers to take photos, by featuring a model and having really attractive sets, that have been designed to be used by passing photographers. Westcott was a good example last year.

You can (if you're lucky) come away with some brilliant pictures, and it's not about being perves or idiots, it's about making the most of an opportunity. The balance is respecting that opportunity which some don't seem to be able to do.

Last Modified By Pete at 12 Mar 2012 - 12:36 PM
miptog
miptog  83532 forum posts United Kingdom61 Constructive Critique Points
12 Mar 2012 - 12:25 PM


Quote: The balance is respecting that opportunity which some don't seem to be able to do.

That's it in a nutshell.

Recall 2 years ago at FOCUS, Katie Green was modelling on one of the stands. unbelievably one of the "photographers" actually jumped on the podium so that he could get a beter view, and take the shot. He was promptly asked "to get off". But hardly "respecting the opportunity"

Last Modified By miptog at 12 Mar 2012 - 12:26 PM
User_Removed
12 Mar 2012 - 12:28 PM


Quote: I'd like to ban any future attempts at photographing Buachaille Etive Mor from that bloody river

Agreed......not to mention flippin Nuthatches!!!


Quote: I gave up on the number of times the "look what Ive got" brigade pushed past without consideration for the LARGE pack on their back.

Said this ages ago but got shot down............again. Sad

answersonapostcard
answersonapostcard Site Moderator 1012518 forum postsanswersonapostcard vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
12 Mar 2012 - 12:33 PM


Quote: The balance is respecting that opportunity which some don't seem to be able to do.

Yep, thats it. Focus is great for photography, but I could never get near to the stands because of whats been described.

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