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Photography Monthly Rudeness

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culturedcanvas
13 Aug 2007 - 10:34 AM

I have to agree with Andy ... people are desperate to see their shots in print and don't mind being paid or not. It's that type of attitude that causes professionals to shudder and cry as amateurs take work from paid people who's job helps them put food on the table. I can totally understand why that pisses them off.

I also agree that most of the mags are crap, with each one jostling for position in the market with no intention of having a long reader lifespan and instead being happy to settle for picking up new customer and holding its interest for only a short time. Reader attrition rates must be massive.

One of the other issues is that most of these mags are controlled by publishing houses and not enthusiasts who are hell bent on profit. The ones that aren't dont have the sufficient funds to provide niche magazines aimed as specific market segments either ...

Catch 22

Dan

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keithh
keithh e2 Member 1022909 forum postskeithh vcard Wallis and Futuna31 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2007 - 11:02 AM


Quote: It's that type of attitude that causes professionals to shudder and cry as amateurs take work from paid people who's job helps them put food on the table. I can totally understand why that pisses them off.

Actually it doesn't, particularly where photographic magazines are concerned. This sector has always been dependent on weekend photographers supplying images for publication and in general they pay such low fees that most professionals treat them as pin money and of little use for anything other than such, as the publicity gained in photographic magazines is limited outside their target market.

ZenTog
ZenTog  127875 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2007 - 11:11 AM

actually tottaly agree with Keith on this, I used to supply the sports mags with pictures, at the end of the day by time travel expenses have been deducted, and at that time slide processing costs, most of the time it was a break even excercise at the best. Pin money it is, and most pros unless over protective will not bother about that non-pros making a little bit of money.
the way freelance photogrpahy is going, their will not be many pros left to moan anyway.

do remember the flaming I got for submitting a freebie to the BBC mag a couple of years ago on here!!!
Was at the big surf fest this weekend, on the beach counted 14 plus 600mm L series lenses, all taking the same pics with little chance of selling them

agoreira
agoreira  106001 forum posts Wales
13 Aug 2007 - 11:15 AM


Quote: That is quite a statement Andy.....everyone starts somewhere, what is wrong with 5 mins of fame anyway......paid or unpaid....famous or infamous, everyone wants different things from their photography.

True, Everyone has to start somewhere, and I'm sure almost everyone has given away a shot for free, just to see it published. Reading some other posts here, it almost reduced me to tears to read that people doing this are preventing pro togs putting bread on their table. it's not something I do, but I don't have a problem with those that want to do it. I'm sure most pro's have done it when starting out, or sold shots very cheaply to get established, they just didn't suddenly turn pro one day, and decide to charge pro prices. I've said here before, if a pro is worried about some amateur, weekend shooter, then perhaps he's in the wrong game. I'm nor sure why they think the amateurs should leave the field exclusively open to them, welcome to the real world, it's every man for himself! If it's your chosen profession, and you don't like it, try something else.

Maddie
Maddie  92714 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2007 - 11:43 AM

A professional starts off from being an amateur.....

ZenTog
ZenTog  127875 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2007 - 12:46 PM

here I am still selling images too cheaply and thats after a few years of being Pro!!!

Doh need to photograph sofas and get rich and choosy like Keefy boy

paulcr
paulcr  91536 forum posts Ireland9 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2007 - 1:01 PM


Quote: That is quite a statement Andy.....everyone starts somewhere, what is wrong with 5 mins of fame anyway......paid or unpaid....famous or infamous, everyone wants different things from their photography.


Quote: A professional starts off from being an amateur....

Two very sensible statements Maddie.
I've lost count of the amount of competition entries I've submitted to magazines. One of the reasons I like the new DSLR photography mag is the format they use in grading your entries and posting the result back to you. Its small recognition but having gained some distinctions from them I feel really encouraged to keep trying. I know some will say its their ploy to get you to continue buying their mag but, hey, so what.
Paul

Last Modified By paulcr at 13 Aug 2007 - 1:01 PM
csurry
csurry  129230 forum posts92 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2007 - 1:25 PM

Ask Mattw how he feels, apparently according to another thread, he submitted images to AP when they did pay for portfolios.

Now they have used some images from a three year old submission when they don't pay. An interesting change in their policy. Be curious to see how many other older images they resort to using. Maybe the number of submissions has declined due to the non-payment idea.

I had not actually realised that their policy had changed, but it seems that they now only pay for one set of pics as chosen by them and the rest get a mug, maybe that's apt!

Smile

Just Jas
Just Jas  1225751 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2007 - 1:53 PM

Perhaps AP thinks that as its title embodies the word 'Amateur' it should publish amateurs' pictures and not pay for them?

I notice that since its change of editor the word 'amateur' has become bigger in its title, whereas previously it was tucked, almost obscurely, vertically alongside the letter 'P' in Photography.

As if they didn't really want it to be there at all!

Or perhaps it was like a lot of amateurs - really wanting to be professional?

Just Jas
Just Jas  1225751 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2007 - 1:59 PM

Another thought has sprung to my mind (yes, it happens occasionally).

Do the professional cricketers think that the amateur cricketers playing cricket on a Sunday are taking the bread from their mouths?

Why this obsession that everything has to be sold?

Particularly if selling (in some form or other) is not your profession.

ZenTog
ZenTog  127875 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2007 - 2:02 PM

jas a lot of people are obbsessed with selling pictures even as ams, they see this as a goal to achieve, a lot of what I see offered for sale is appallingly poor in qaulity, people should be satisfied with creating a stunning picture, or should go in for comps

Just Jas
Just Jas  1225751 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2007 - 2:32 PM

As an amateur photographer I would be quite pleased if an amateur photographic magazine published one, or some, of my pictures. If.

Were I to submit them.

I would not expect payment for them, however, as an amateur.

If I were a professional I would think differently, no doubt.

But would I then be submitting to an amateur magazine, in the first instance, unless I had a request (or invitation) from the picture editor?

csurry
csurry  129230 forum posts92 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2007 - 2:55 PM

I have no objection to APs change in policy per se.

People submitting now know the new rules - get lucky = get paid, otherwise be content with seeing your pic in print.

Just Jas
Just Jas  1225751 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2007 - 3:05 PM


Quote: I have no objection to APs change in policy per se.

Providing that they advise prospective contributors before they make their submission and not after they have published the pics.


Quote: I would not expect payment for them, however, as an amateur.

This my own personal view, of course.

Others may expect some recompense for the trouble they have taken for they magazines benefit.

digipad
digipad  10 United Kingdom
13 Aug 2007 - 4:51 PM

i had a quick look through this thread and for those who don't still yet know Daniel is now at http://www.digitalslrphoto.com/ give it a whirl

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