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Police claim they don't need law to stop photographer taking pictures

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wrinkles
wrinkles e2 Member 5338 forum postswrinkles vcard United Kingdom
30 Jun 2010 - 8:54 PM

I have done my share for my country of birth,and i am to old to carry on , so young people it's all yours.
Good luck?SadSadSad

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30 Jun 2010 - 8:54 PM

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SuziBlue
SuziBlue  1116195 forum posts Scotland10 Constructive Critique Points
30 Jun 2010 - 9:27 PM

I'm taken aback by comments suggesting that he's 16 therefore bound to be cocky therefore not worth it. Or that someone hopes he was hurt going down the steps (what??) Or that his job (freelance photography) should be ridiculed because he's still at school. He's a young man, and a confident one at that.

I've also watched the video and it does look as though we have different perceptions of both him and the police. I don't find him obnoxious or loud mouthed at all. I find him polite but assertive - is this a bad thing in a young person? He's not swearing or slagging them off, he's standing his ground and making valid points, which the police are ignoring - and as GrayWolf points out - trying to put him down because in their eyes he's just a spotty kid with a camera they think is a pushover.

Why is it not valid that he has a job as well as being at school? I did. Millions of young people do. I worked in an elderly retirement home at the weekends when I was still at school and that was what I called my job. Why is he not allowed to call his freelance work his "job"?

We're constantly encouraging each other here to stand up for our rights and not be pushed around - this is exactly what he's doing. Who knows - perhaps he's an epzedder .. Wink

Good luck to him. I wish I'd had that confidence and self-assuredness at that age.

Last Modified By SuziBlue at 30 Jun 2010 - 9:35 PM
KathyW
KathyW  101793 forum posts Norfolk Island12 Constructive Critique Points
30 Jun 2010 - 9:40 PM

I'm taken aback by the lack of respect kids have for anyone in authority, so I suppose it's only to be expected that they will ignore polite requests to move on and cause a ruck instead. I expect the "young man" will do quite nicely out of it, and the policemen will be reprimanded instead of being given a pat on the back for having enough restraint not to give the lad a good spanking... Wink

sidaorb
sidaorb  83857 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
30 Jun 2010 - 9:52 PM


Quote: In all the years I`ve taken pictures, I`ve never been stopped or questioned anywhere.

I`ve seen plenty of other`s stopped and questioned and I`m really not surprised Sad

As have thousands of photographers throughout the country, however none of those make 'good' stories in the press.

The kid was being very awkward, unfortunately it wasn't dealt with properly (or perceived to have been going by a very one sided report Wink )

Taser, pepper spray or letting the squadies at him would have been far more effective Wink

Last Modified By sidaorb at 30 Jun 2010 - 10:55 PM
SuziBlue
SuziBlue  1116195 forum posts Scotland10 Constructive Critique Points
30 Jun 2010 - 10:07 PM

Like I say, different perceptions, and yes each perception will be one-sided, sidaorb, as is yours. I don't see any reason though to rubbish him, or to suggest he should be assaulted.

Perhaps I have a higher opinion of young people than you do, and higher expectations, and see the good in them. Not all young people are troublemakers, just as not all police are aggressive thugs.

minicooper
30 Jun 2010 - 10:31 PM

One the questions he was pior was who did he work for. If he had said he worked for the Romford Echo or whatever I am sure this would have a whole different story.

sidaorb
sidaorb  83857 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
30 Jun 2010 - 11:01 PM


Quote: or to suggest he should be assaulted.
.

That was meant lightheartedly hence the Wink

I have a balanced opinion of both young and old and have to deal with the cream and the cr*p of all generations and believe me the oldies can be as bad as the kids.

Just gets my goat when these types of story are sensationalised by the press, there aren't many jobs out there where people have to deal with this kind of face to face conflict and for police this WILL happen on a daily basis on various levels.

SuziBlue
SuziBlue  1116195 forum posts Scotland10 Constructive Critique Points
1 Jul 2010 - 12:32 AM

It just seems like double standards sidaorb. Like I say, we always encourage each other on epz to stand our ground and to make a point when we're challenged, because by and large the police do not know the law when it comes to photography. Yet, we're seeing exactly that and this young man is being rubbished, with negative spin put on everything he says and does, his motives, what he should have done ..

Young people get sick and tired of being rubbished, and it being assumed they're always out to cause trouble. We may be their elders but it's not a given that we're their betters. Some young people put adults to shame with what they do for their communities or the care they take of an ill parent, or the passion they have for life.

Anyone who works with the public day in day out risks getting a jaundiced view of people and ending up tarring everyone with the same brush, unless they make the choice not to do that. Anyone can have a bad day or get worn out by the constant barrage of public interaction - we're only human.

I'd like to suggest that the police in that video might have used their brains and dealt with him a little more intelligently and tactfully. "'Allo son. Nice camera. Freelancer, eh? Good stuff. Could you move back just a bit while we do x, y z or you'll get crushed in the rush ha ha. etc etc." But there again, they knew nothing about recent developments in the legalities of photography in a public place and the role of the police (does this kind of relevant information not filter down to stations ..? if not, why not ..).

Jestertheclown


Quote: It just seems like double standards sidaorb.

But your views aren't at all biased then?

No anti-police feelings in your corner?

DT01
DT01  569 forum posts
1 Jul 2010 - 9:49 AM


Quote: I'd like to suggest that the police in that video might have used their brains and dealt with him a little more intelligently and tactfully. "'Allo son. Nice camera. Freelancer, eh? Good stuff. Could you move back just a bit while we do x, y z or you'll get crushed in the rush ha ha. etc etc." But there again, they knew nothing about recent developments in the legalities of photography in a public place and the role of the police (does this kind of relevant information not filter down to stations ..? if not, why not ..).

That probably would have led to a fairly successful outcome on both sides. The fundamental flaw I perceive (having listened to the whole thing) is that the officers in question did not have sufficient brains to adopt this approach. Their egos clearly could not accept that the kid had a reasonable right to ask the questions he did. For the officer to say, 'you know what....I consider you a threat under the Terrorism Act' was simply pathetic.

The kid called their bluff and they couldn't cope with it. Amateur hour.

Last Modified By DT01 at 1 Jul 2010 - 9:51 AM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139367 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
1 Jul 2010 - 10:21 AM


Quote: The kid called their bluff and they couldn't cope with it

Spot on! And thank goodness we have the means of recording these incidents so that we can make our own judgements on these matters. Smile

This bit of the story is interesting:

"The incident in Romford came just 24 hours after the force was forced to pay compensation to two photojournalists for a similar incident."

Clearly the message isn't getting through.

Last Modified By Carabosse at 1 Jul 2010 - 10:21 AM
User_Removed
1 Jul 2010 - 10:38 AM


Quote: "The incident in Romford came just 24 hours after the force was forced to pay compensation to two photojournalists for a similar incident."

Clearly the message isn't getting through.

Maybe not to the police but it might be to some 16 year olds!

triumphv8
triumphv8  6445 forum posts United Kingdom
1 Jul 2010 - 11:01 AM

Anyone seen Robocop 2

That and this incident and the responses above show why we have such an inneffective Police force, pussyfooting around everyone incase they breach their rights.

It's about time young people learned some respect for them - if that same kid called reporting intruders in his house that same Policeman would be expected to risk his life and go in to catch them.

I was asked to move by Police at an AFD at the weekend - I was just standing watching on a public pavement - I didn't start a rant about under what law I was being asked to move under.

SuziBlue
SuziBlue  1116195 forum posts Scotland10 Constructive Critique Points
1 Jul 2010 - 11:47 AM


Quote: But your views aren't at all biased then?

No anti-police feelings in your corner?

I'd have the same opinion about anyone pushing their weight around trying to intimidate someone.

The assumption that this young guy is trying to capitalise on a similar event is unfair. Where's the evidence. What we've got is a real time video of what happened, and what was said.

We've got a lot of young people on this site who are learning how to make their way in the world, and this guy could well have been one of them for all we know. The double standard I mention is the one which says it's OK for us epzedders to be polite but assertive to the police, railway staff, security people, or whoever, and stand our ground in defence of photographers' rights, but not for an unknown 16 year old who is also a photographer in his spare time.

User_Removed
1 Jul 2010 - 12:02 PM

He was either trying it on or incredibly naïve. To think he could walk out into an area where they where clearly setting up a parade and start taking photos shows one or the other. If he was simply naïve he would have reacted differently than he did.

An older photographer would have accepted what he/she was being told and probably smiled, talk to them nicely and got their shots. Instead he acts like an idiot and the next time a photographer tries to take some shots they will be tarnished by this.

His reaction was almost identical to the kids here when we kick them off Facebook or ask them not to drink their coke in the library. The police should have done what we do, let them talk and talk and run out of words, happens pretty quick. Don’t argue with them, just let them burn themselves out and then walk them out of the room.

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