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Hi everyone 
I am a little confused about this subject. I went out this morning to do some shooting and shot 3 rolls (I bulk buy Ilford Delta 100 and load 10 shots per cartridge) and 2 of the rolls required normal development and 1 required -2 development. When i took them to my dev lab they told me that -2 dev would be a little tricky. They told me that this was because film requires a certain amount of time in the developer to give a good even result, if it doesnt get enough time the results can be an uneven neg with dev marks on it (he used the words lines on the neg). Is this usual or is it inherent in the Ilford range of film? I have been reading a lot about the Zone System and I havent come across this information before. I have read about people giving negs + or - 3, so I was a little suprised when i recieved this information.
Could someone plz clear this up for me.
Thx in advance for any comments.
Neil.
Without research I would suspect the processor is using a standard type of developer that would give too short a time with your film. It would be better if you found a specialist lab that has access to a wide choice of developers and pick a slow working one where a longer time would be needed to prevent the uneven development. Check out the Ilford site to see if there's more info of recommended developers on the PDF page for your film. Then find a processor who uses the recommended developer. Alternatively, could you do it yourself?
-2 means that the film was effectively exposed at 25 iso ? Shooting outside, natural light in winter should be soft ?
Exposed at 50 iso would be correct, processed normal to get more contrast. I would try processing this normal , hope to get contrasty but useable negs, if not,write it off to experience. How much trouble would you go to to save 10 frames, Pete ?
Hi Photoid I would have played it safe and already be aware of the necessary processor. But that's not the case here and I'm also assuming that the cartridge indicates scorchio is using sheet film which would have meant that these are pretty special shots, and the effort will be necessary! Could be wrong though
Pete, I am always interested in learning more, so I looked up what other photographers say about this film as I don't use it myself.
The general consensus is that the ideal exposure would be around 64 iso, processed normal, to get the best results.
The film is a bit tricky to dev., but
-1 should be possible. Maybe the other 2 rolls need a bit more dev time too.
Best way to find out is to experiment, and learn what works best for you.
With the greatest respect scorchio, why did 2 of the 3 rolls need normal and the 3rd -2!. Did you have a camera malfunction? Millions of words have been written about pushing and pulling film (and you are right that -2 is tricky..you have to let the dog see the rabbit a bit in the dev) and intersting results can be achieved but -2 is really pushing it! (or rather pulling it)
thx for all your replies
sounds like i am going to get back at least 1 dodgy roll back the reason why one film was -2 is because the shadow area i wanted to place on zone 3 and the highlights (clouds) fell on zone 10, but i wanted them to come in on zone 8 to retain at least a little detail and not be burnt out, hence the -2 dev. is this the wrong way to go about it? the other 2 rolls fell nicley between zone 2 to zone 8, so i figured it didnt need any adjustments. also the reason that one of the rolls needed - 2 and the others needed normal was because it was shot a few hours l8r than the other 2 and the lighting was a lot stronger.
thx to your replies i am getting a better idea of what is going on, but i think i need to experiment more before i feel comfortable with it.
i dont really have the room or facilites to do developing myself unfortunately, but i do take the film to a pro lab, so next time i am there i will ask them more about the dev they use etc now i have a better idea about what questions to ask them. i have produced a few really nice shots, but it seems like its more by luck than judgement now.
back to the drawing board
thx again for your comments, much appreciated
neil.
Whats already been said in principal is correct. however some films are better than others in this respect.
The reason the lab said it may lead to uneven development is they will be using straight stock solutions which would lead to too short a dev time.
If you did them yourself you could dilute the dev 1 to 1 which would lead to a longer dev time but softer working.
As for room you only need a small daylight tank and a changing bag you then could dev in the kitchen or bathroom. You would probably get more consistant results as well.
Don't forget in your experiments with the zone system that camera filters do effect the zones as well eg if you use a red filter and calulate the unfiltered shadows for zone 111 when you use the filter it could drag those shadows down to zone 11 or even 1 depending on its strength. If your trying for minus 2 development you must compensate a little by over-exposeing by maybe a stop or you will lose the shadows due to your minus 2 development.
Regards Bill
It sounds as though the lab and some folk here think you want to pull process 2 stops. This is not the same as N-2. If you pull 2 stops all your picutres will be underexposed - end of story.
It's sounds as though you've made a good starting by bulk buying and loading 10 per cartridge.
Dev times for all N+/- is a matter of trial and error. There is some data on the web for Kodak films, but not for Delta as far as I have seen. If I see any I'll let you know.
Where's Stan L-B, ? he knows all about this.
Scorchio,
What I meant by softer working is that dilute developer is less aggressive. This is why dev times are longer.
In development the shadows are the first to develop and when the shadows are exhausted the high lights carry on development because its received more exposure. With minus development its these highlights your trying to control in development. Hence the saying expose for the shadows and dev for the highlights.
You should follow your hero's advice and calibrate your own camera system, processing technique if you want predictable results. Change the film, the dev and its start again with the tests. This is the only way to crack it because you have practically tested your system.
Take a roll of a blank wall with light texture take a reflected light reading this will be zone V. from this calculate what zone1 would be and take a shot at this then consectutively give 1stop more exposure until you reach zone X process the film and make a contact sheet if the print as gone completely white before it gets to the tenth frame cut development. if your zone 111 is black with no detail increase exposure eg down rate the film. I use Ilford FP4 a lot I rate this atISO 64 with my gear.
This way you know exactly what the film speed and dev times are for your gear.
Then try the same teasts to determine + and - development.
Regards Bill
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