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ade_mcfade e2
10 15.1k 216 England
14 Jul 2012 12:37PM

Quote:Facebook friends will Like your photo because they are your friends.


is this also true...

Facebook friends will dislike your photo because they are your friends.

I actually find more variation in "like" counts on there than anywhere else... I think it's more honest, to be honest Wink

It's not a photo site, therefore people are not on there to be judge and jury over photo quality, rather to use the site in the miriad of different ways available, to whatever end they wish... and if they "like" a photo that'll possibly be just a passing thing that catches their eye?

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ade_mcfade e2
10 15.1k 216 England
14 Jul 2012 12:41PM

Quote:I remember you saying once that you'd pretty much given up on removing litter bins and so on from your shots because, in reality, they are actually there and it set me thinking along the same lines to a large extent.


Ah yes - well remembered...

If you're doing stuff for a commercial client, you're probably best off getting rid - they don't really want fags and bin bags on the front of their brochures Wink

But for personal stuff, I like to capture things as they really are - I don't really do much with skin on portraits (hang me high!!!!) as I don't really like people to look like dummies! I sometimes lower the clarity on the faces of older ladies.... that's it.

Use that coke can as a foreground interest, leadlines from power cables... etc. etc. etc.

Anyway - off oot
Carabosse e2
11 39.7k 269 England
14 Jul 2012 12:42PM
Surely on FB, far more than on EPZ, they will Like a photo because they like.................. you? Smile
ade_mcfade e2
10 15.1k 216 England
14 Jul 2012 1:17PM
I would say that there are so many different things to engage people on there that getting any likes is a bonus. I guess that just friends like you so it's a captive audience
JackAllTog e2
5 4.0k 58 United Kingdom
17 Jul 2012 4:05PM

Quote:Why do "real people" and "photographers" see photos differently?

What factors come into play?

Do photographers suffer from image fatigue - craving something they've never seen before?

Who would you prefer your work to appeal to - real people or photographers? (and don't say both, or neither - you'd just want to please yourself - binary answer, tog/not-tog )



I uploaded a facebook and epz the same photo yesterday - i got loads of great indirect feedback on FB from people i mostly don't know for an image that's a bit different but not technically the best i've taken/done. (and a nice smaller bunch of C&C's from epz).

The factors that come into play for individuals are relationship, recognisability, environment and then perhaps photo quality.
The factors for photographers are technical merit, uniqueness, artistic merit.

image fatigue - i've often stopped voting on people just producing great photo's - i know they can do that and i know where i can find them.

I've loved the recent FB appeal, but will soon tire of it and crave epz feedback more as this is the only real test that allows me where to improve.
I also hope that as time goes on i again prefer my work to also appeal to "real people" but only as i'll want them to value and ultimately pay for images i'll produce.
Less of the FB wow factor, and more of the wallet clutching that's worth it group.
lemmy 7 2.0k United Kingdom
17 Jul 2012 7:12PM

Quote:image fatigue - i've often stopped voting on people just producing great photo's - i know they can do that and i know where i can find them.


Couldn't agree more. What is a great photo seems to have changed in line with the photo diarrhoea that digital facilitates.

In 40 years as a professional photographer I find that I can judge fewer of my pictures in that time outstanding than some people have judged 'great' pictures on this site or Facebook alone. Either I am **ss poor or general photography criticism has gone the same was as school exam results, what was 'satisfactory' is now 'A**' .

Yes, all right, I'm **ss poor Wink
ade_mcfade e2
10 15.1k 216 England
17 Jul 2012 11:56PM

Quote:I've loved the recent FB appeal, but will soon tire of it and crave epz feedback more as this is the only real test that allows me where to improve.


really....? The ONLY way to improve?

One of the biggest learnings of the last year has been working with a guy who teaches NLP/Hypnosis, I teach him photography

When we've got someone to shoot, he has the techniques to instantly disarm them, relax them, make them laugh... I've started trying to copy what he does and the results are amazingly different... you learn far more by doing and interacting than anything else (I count workshops as "doing" by the way). Had 8 very stiff, unenthusiastic students to disarm last week - had all but one laughing and doing daft things... all from experiencing what an NLP guy does to build rapport... the one that wasn't playing was a pain but we got the shots in the end... they are being printed at life size and put on the walls in Manchester Student's Union....

All depends what you're after, I'm after happy people who's faces you could put on websites/poster campaigns... real people being real. Real people who appeal to real people.
lemmy 7 2.0k United Kingdom
18 Jul 2012 7:24AM

Quote:When we've got someone to shoot, he has the techniques to instantly disarm them, relax them, make them laugh


And is exactly what make successful photographers successful. Mario Testino take very good pictures but nothing that given enough hard work (ad it would be a lot) any other photographer couldn't learn. But the ability to handle people - and essentially you have to like people in order to get on with them - that is the secret.

When I worked with the McCartneys I didn't flatter myself that it was because I was the best photographer they could use. It was that my work had convinced their publicist that I could do what they needed - not too hard - but mainly that when we met, they - and especially Linda - liked me and thought I would fit in. Being able to relax and make people laugh is the biggest asset a photographer can have.
ade_mcfade e2
10 15.1k 216 England
24 Jul 2012 10:50PM
Been doing a survey on my workshops and feedback has been around wanting more guidance on "posing" and working with people

It's an interesting one, because i don't consciously do anything specific - it's more about human interactions, talking, reassuring, giving feedback. I've tried to explain how I do it and it usually results in blank faces Wink

I'm usually try for natural, "real" pictures - not rigid fashion style images where hands are strictly placed and heads tilted to the right angle. I'd rather get a sax player in a wind farm playing his sax, just telling him to "play like that light is a sexy lady" - then see what transpires Smile

The sax player loved all 363 shots I got of him, all unposed
JackAllTog e2
5 4.0k 58 United Kingdom
25 Jul 2012 2:21PM

Quote: The sax player loved all 363 shots I got of him, all unposed
is it that situational relationship thing again - he likes the saxaphone and him playing it so ALL the photo's are great ? would you say ALL the photos are great?

Busy Pro photographers cannot afford the time to have an emotional attachment to their subjects, so judge a photo's based on the artistic/technical merits only.

Now my FB likes have settled down i can say - no one necessarily liked my photo - they mostly just liked seeing the person in it.
Though i did enjoy sharing that with them, i want more and so look to continue seeking the artistic/technical improvements we can find amongst other photographers & artists.

So to answer Ade's earlier quoted question - to improve you need to define & measure improvements, and to measure photo's unemotionally you need an experienced audience such as ePhotozine (yes there are others but...) that don't recognise the subject or your local camera club. Or even working with a tutor/mentor.
ade_mcfade e2
10 15.1k 216 England
25 Jul 2012 2:45PM
no - they're not all great, but I think they're all better than anything he'd had done before (other than ones by me at another workshop) Wink

Are you a busy pro photographer Stu? Congrats, didn't realise you'd taken the jump mate - good luck!!!!!

Must admit, I have a completely opposite view of what you say - the more emotional connection you get with your subject the better the photos - if you approach your work unemotionally, like a robot, you're going to get some pretty cold, heartless results.

My earlier quoted question wasn't about improving really - more about why "real" people like different things to "photographers"
JackAllTog e2
5 4.0k 58 United Kingdom
25 Jul 2012 4:03PM
"busy pro photographer " - I wish - I'm buried in IT as you were a few years ago. Keep inspiring us wage slaves though with your comments and images Smile - its nice to dream.
ade_mcfade e2
10 15.1k 216 England
25 Jul 2012 4:25PM
Wierd thing is, Stuart, that you work how you want to when you a "busy pro" - so many people shooting trainers will be unemotional and just picture a 20 note every time the shutter clicks.

I'm the exact opposite - I'm selling a very personalised product, one where I try my best to extract emotion from people, often who really don't want to be there (in the case of company staff shots).

The hardest part... well finding work!

The second... reading and working with people, it's getting easier, learning new ideas all the time - just experience.

I think the biggest shock about going pro is how little changes.... I'm sure everyone has different expectations of what will happen, different dreams, but you don't magically change... it's gradual... and the changes are different to what you'd expect...

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