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Ripping off a charity

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aftertherain
9 Mar 2010 - 10:30 AM

I was doing a google search of my name ( sad I know) and came across this site Douglas Bader Foundation they're using one of my pictures of Sycamore Gap to promote a Walk Hadrian's Wall for the charity.
I contacted the foundation and said it would have been nice to have been asked permission to use the pic. I pointed out that it was subject to copyright and for such a good cause permission would have been freely given.
The guy came back to me apologising, he then goes on to explain that this image was supplied to the Foundation by an agency.
Now that is the lowest of the low, I hope he is able to recoup whatever they paid the agency for this stolen shot.
It came from the BBC website.

Last Modified By aftertherain at 9 Mar 2010 - 10:31 AM
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9 Mar 2010 - 10:30 AM

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User_Removed
9 Mar 2010 - 10:45 AM


Quote:
It came from the BBC website.

If you check the T&Cs on the BBC web site you'll find you've rights-grabbed.

montechoro
montechoro  112340 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
9 Mar 2010 - 10:46 AM

Just to clarify - did you supply this image to the BBC website Joan and the agency lifted it from there?

Edit - as Chris above

Last Modified By montechoro at 9 Mar 2010 - 10:47 AM
fstopshere
9 Mar 2010 - 10:52 AM

Ditto, to above, a number of organisations are using a 'catch all' phraseology to essentially 'harvest' images for free, this now includes 'competitions',( was this image, perhaps sent in for something like "Look North" weather picture or something?) where those submitting images are essentially signing away all rights, in perpetuity, organisations such as AoP, BIPP etc. are lobbying about this but it appears to becoming ubiquitous, caveat submitter.

jazzygf
jazzygf  11537 forum posts Scotland
9 Mar 2010 - 12:03 PM

BBC,ITV,CH4,CH5 & sky all have it written into there T&C you give them a photo they then have the right to sell it to any agency they choose.Sucks i know but thats in there T&C. The best one i hear with this was the guy who took photos of the bunsfield oild fire and sent them to the BBC if they were intrested in them. The BBC sold them al over the world and made 30,000 and the guy got nothing.
In fact im sure there was a thread in here about it.

User_Removed
9 Mar 2010 - 12:13 PM

If someone is silly enough to give their work away etc etc etc

filmforever
9 Mar 2010 - 12:27 PM

NEVER, EVER give any photograph to the BBC or any of the TV companies, they have it in the small print that by submitting your pictures to them, they assume the right to use it , syndicate it,anywhere they want.

montechoro
montechoro  112340 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
9 Mar 2010 - 12:52 PM

Hi Joan - on a positive note - it is a super image and I can see why they would want to use it.

Here are the BBC Terms and Conditions for submitting images

BBC Photo T&C's

It would be worth checking back along the audit trail to see just how the agency actually got hold of the image.

Have you posted it elsewhere?

It's a long shot but well worth pursuing perhaps as the BBC are only supposed to use the image "for the purpose in which you submitted it".

Using it outside of that proviso - they say in their own FAQ's they will contact you to discuss.

The copyright for the image is still yours.

A hard lesson nonetheless - I'm really sorry for you.

Last Modified By montechoro at 9 Mar 2010 - 12:58 PM
filmforever
9 Mar 2010 - 1:52 PM


Quote:

Here are the BBC Terms and Conditions for submitting images


Thanks for posting this, I hope all members take time to read it, particularly clauses 6&7 under the heading "Contributions to the BBC"...where they state in one clause that sharing your material with the BBC means that you grant them permission to use the material WITHOUT PAYMENT in any way they see fit. They also take it upon themselves to modify your material and to use it in the worldwide media etc.
In the next para. (clause 7) they have the nerve to state...Copyright belongs to you..(a seeming condradiction to clause 6)....and you can continue to use the material yourself !!!!

Oh can we really.....thank you so much BBC...very generous of you!

montechoro
montechoro  112340 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
9 Mar 2010 - 2:06 PM

What has really aroused my interest filmforever is whether the agency paid the BBC and the BBC took the money without consulting the OP or whether the agency just lifted it from the BBC or another website and sold it on to the charity.

There still might be a breach of copyright - a long shot I know - but sometimes the long shots pay off.

I hope so for the OP's sake this time around.

On this occasion there is a clear audit trail to follow if the OP is so inclined.

cambirder
cambirder  107202 forum posts England
9 Mar 2010 - 2:15 PM


Quote: .where they state in one clause that sharing your material with the BBC means that you grant them permission to use the material WITHOUT PAYMENT in any way they see fit. They also take it upon themselves to modify your material and to use it in the worldwide media etc.
In the next para. (clause 7) they have the nerve to state...Copyright belongs to you..(a seeming condradiction to clause 6)..and you can continue to use the material yourself !!!!.

There is no contradiction, you have not signed your copyright away, you have just given them a licence to do what they want with it for as long as they like.

aftertherain
9 Mar 2010 - 2:26 PM


Quote:

If you check the T&Cs on the BBC web site you'll find you've rights-grabbed.

Some 5 years ago I, along with several other photographers including Terry Cavner, was asked to supply a gallery of photographs to local BBC Tyne.
I got it in writing from them that all of my copyrights would remain intact - they would have no claim on them at all and they would only be used on this particular Gallery site.
At that time the T&C's were worded differently.
I send nothing to the BBC nowadays.
It's not the first time that a photograph has been lifted from that site, but normally it's people using them to illustrate poems on internet sites.
I'm not a pro photographer neither do I want to be a pro photographer, I give away a lot of photographs.
Had I been approached directly by the Charity I would have given them a better photograph to use.

What annoyed me was this 'agency' should know better, they've added a credit to me on the photograph so it wasn't as if they didn't know who had taken the shot and I'm easy to find if you google my name.

filmforever
9 Mar 2010 - 2:28 PM

[quote]What has really aroused my interest filmforever is whether the agency paid the BBC and the BBC took the money without consulting the OP

It's quite likely they did pay the BBC and it's certainly worth investigating.
What is equally, if not more worrying is; where else has this picture been used via the BBC without the author's kinowledge?

It's possible as you say, there may still be a breach of copyright, but the BBC's "Conditions of Submission" read: By sending us your material, you agree to allow us to produce it/modify it/syndicate it in the worldwide media, for no payment to yourself (Cannot recall exact wording but you get the drift).....I feel it's very much a case of "Potential Contributor Beware".

Last Modified By filmforever at 9 Mar 2010 - 2:29 PM
montechoro
montechoro  112340 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
9 Mar 2010 - 2:47 PM


Quote:
What annoyed me was this 'agency' should know better, they've added a credit to me on the photograph so it wasn't as if they didn't know who had taken the shot and I'm easy to find if you google my name.

The BBC T&C's expressly state any submission will only be for "BBC Services" and not for the "print media".

If the agency have just lifted it and sold it to the charity - they are in breach of copyright or the BBC have acted outside of their own T&C's.

filmforever
9 Mar 2010 - 3:05 PM


Quote:

If the agency have just lifted it and sold it to the charity - they are in breach of copyright or the BBC have acted outside of their own T&C's.

It's possible the agency lifted it......everybody; printed media included, lifts stuff of the web these days, if they cannot find the picture they want by legitimate means.

I would have thought the BBC would have some "protection" of their images in place to prevent this. I'm inclined to think maybe a sale has taken place....Probably some graduate student who knows next to nothing about copyright was sitting at the library end of the computer when the request came in, and let the image go. (Yes such people are employed in major media organisations these days......cost cutting rears its ugly head again......and lessons on copyright do not normally form part of their "job education", more often than not they just get plonked there and told to get on with it).

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