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Scotlands Politics

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roxpix
roxpix  102236 forum posts Scotland11 Constructive Critique Points
6 May 2011 - 4:38 PM


Quote: I can't help sensing a slight hint of racism from national party's

I can easily see how Nationalist topics can seem anti-English (or smack of racism) from the outside, when it fact it’s more likely these topics actually have little to do with England, so as a consideration England becomes rather a low priority with the focus of the topic firmly on Scotland & the folk who live here (including Adrian Tongue )

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6 May 2011 - 4:38 PM

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robob
robob  111022 forum posts England
6 May 2011 - 4:47 PM

Incidentally, as the son of a glaswegian and grandson of a ship builder on the Clyde, I'm all for independence.

scottishphototours


Quote: Incidentally, as the son of a glaswegian and grandson of a ship builder on the Clyde, I'm all for independence.

That's an interesting point right there.

Your Grandfather may have been totally baffled by the idea of an independant Scotland. Your Father may have been introduced to the idea and interested in its merits and now you are all for it - 2 generations removed.

Goes to show you that the move to complete independance may take another generation before it happens...

fraser
fraser  10631 forum posts Scotland14 Constructive Critique Points
6 May 2011 - 8:37 PM

The SNP has nothing to do with anti-english politics and everything to do with the notion that Scotland has its own political, cultural, philosphical and economic identity. I'm also of the view that independence would improve our relationship with England and the English and would get rid of the Scottish cringe (which is dying out anyway, largely as a result of the powers we have already gained through devolution) and some people's blaming the English and/or the Westminster government for our ills. The SNP, for their part, welcome ALL incomers to Scotland and have many English-born or descended activists.

I think the notion that independence would require an English referendum is plain daft. I can just see the uproar if Scotland voted for it in a referendum and the English said no.

Snapper
Snapper  93750 forum posts United States Minor Outlying Islands3 Constructive Critique Points
6 May 2011 - 9:05 PM

I'm not an expert on the proposed referendum, but I think the basic thing is that the SNP would have to win it first and then open negotiations at UK level. The theory would be that a majority in favour would put them in a strong bargaining position, but the actual nitty gritty probably has still to be worked out. OTOH, the UK government might give sufficient concessions over the next few years to satisfy the punters and get a No vote, so it'll be interesting how things turn out.

Last Modified By Snapper at 6 May 2011 - 9:07 PM
chris.maddock
6 May 2011 - 9:43 PM


Quote: I think the notion that independence would require an English referendum is plain daft. I can just see the uproar if Scotland voted for it in a referendum and the English said no.

I don't think that such a referendum would need to be UK-wide - in any case, the Scottish Parliament has no jurisdiction in England/Wales/Northern Ireland so would not have the power to call a UK-wide referendum.

That said, I do wonder how successful such a referendum would be in Scotland - how much of the swing to the SNP is really down to a stronger move towards Scottish nationalism as opposed to more voters simply being disillusioned by the other parties?

scottishphototours

BBc News had an interesting report tonight - apparently the SNP wouldn't ask for a referendum immediately after such a huge vote, because Scotland's people aren't ready for it yet.

They made the point that there is still a great deal of work to be done before the referendum takes place - probably in around 3 years. Cameron is saying he's totally against independance and will fight it "with every fibre in me". That tells me that there WOULD need to be Westminster approval for independance. Interesting times ahead...

By the way, so glad to see those Lib Dem scum get slaughtered across the board. Clegg should be happy that he's destroyed 30 years of work by his predecessors... they are finished now, you should read what my kids pals are saying on Facebook about them. If they read some of it, they'd pack up and take up wedding photography....

kaybee
kaybee  103823 forum posts Scotland24 Constructive Critique Points
6 May 2011 - 11:07 PM

What I want to know is how in Gods name Mr Salmond plans to pay for all the promises he has made.
After all - he is not putting up council tax etc and is going to throw money at everything and every section of society.

'Nationalism' has caused problems for my wife for nearly 40 years.
All that time she has suffered abuse and snide comments because she was born in England and has never lost her accent.

chris.maddock
6 May 2011 - 11:12 PM


Quote: That tells me that there WOULD need to be Westminster approval for independance

I'm sure there would need to be - surely both the 1706 Act of Union (England) and 1707 Act of Union (Scotland) would need to be repealed or replaced with a new Act enabling the Union to be broken?

However, were there to be overwhelming support in Scotland for independence I can't see that there would be any sense whatsoever in Westminster refusing it - provided that you lot don't start demanding passports for my trips to the Highlands, Wester Ross and Skye Wink

strawman
strawman  1022006 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
6 May 2011 - 11:27 PM

I am not certain that the people of England would want to vote against independence for Scotland, just not certain what Scotland gets from independence. It already has a cultural difference from the rest of the UK. Would Scotland do better than Ireland?

keith selmes
6 May 2011 - 11:49 PM

Quel dommage. Maintenant, nous sommes tous européens.

SuziBlue
SuziBlue  1116195 forum posts Scotland10 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 12:21 AM


Quote: 'Nationalism' has caused problems for my wife for nearly 40 years.
All that time she has suffered abuse and snide comments because she was born in England and has never lost her accent.

Oh yeah I've had it too. Someone I thought was a friend was shrieking at me in a pub because I had the audacity as an English person to talk about Scottish Independence and Scottish history. She screamed the place down. She was asked to leave. I had no right at all, apparently, to be interested in Scottish politics.

I'm part Scot with an English accent. Her racism towards me that day was very plain, although by the next day she'd forgotten what she said.

Last Modified By SuziBlue at 7 May 2011 - 12:23 AM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139430 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 2:16 AM


Quote: Quel dommage. Maintenant, nous sommes tous européens.

Jawohl! Das ist sehr wahr. Smile

Ewanneil
Ewanneil  41118 forum posts Scotland2 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 6:25 AM

I think that many of the votes for the SNP were for positive reasons rather than as a consequence of disillusionment with other parties. The last SNP government did well and governed maturely and responsibly. They have gained a new-found respect amongst the Scottish electorate who saw a raft of positive policies reflecting the way Scots view the world.

In terms of what happens now I don't think Scotland would vote for independence if a referendum were held soon. However, I detect a swell in overall optimism in the country and if that can be sustained who knows what could happen. Curiously, and despite what he may be saying publicly, I think David Cameron may welcome a vote in favour of independence. It would give the Tories a permanent majority in England and so perpetual governance in what would remain of the rest of the UK. The Labour party would be the big losers as they can never run the UK without all their Scottish seats.

As for racism I would hate to think there would be any rise in it and I doubt it will happen. Scots are generally a very accommodating people and enjoy multi-culturism. But there are nutters everywhere and for anyone who has ever experienced it in Scotland I am sorry they had to endure it. Both my wife and I have experienced anti-Scottish racism whilst living and working in England; her in Manchester and me in London. At one point during a previous surge in Scottish nationalism the local neanderthals indulged in "jock-baiting" and spent their Friday and Saturday nights looking for Scots to beat up. It was so rife I and a few friends had to be very careful where we went. Also, and as a frequent visitor to Brittany in France I regularly see racist posters advocating that immigrants be removed and their jobs given to Bretons. It exits everywhere I'm afraid and is difficult to eradicate.

For the moment, I am just amazed at the transformation in the Scottish political landscape and can't wait to see how it all pans out. Oh! and I don't think I have every been so proud to be Scottish.

robob
robob  111022 forum posts England
7 May 2011 - 11:17 AM

I think a major hurdle for independence would be the Royal Family, there are a lot of Royalists north of the border. Would they vote to part with the monarchy?

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