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Selling images of places that belong National trust and English heritage?

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ren
ren  3 United Kingdom
7 Oct 2012 - 10:40 AM

Can anyone point me in the right direction, what is the latest on selling images of places that belong to National Trust and English Heritage? I have various images of Avebury, Silbury hill, Bedruthan steps, Stonehenge, Castlerigg circle, Durdle door and so on. All old neolithic places or natural formations. Not private gardens and houses. I have been searching the net, and there are various articles, but they seem to be 2-3 years old. I have seen many other photographers selling images of these places, contacted couple of them but had no replies from them.


Thank you very much in advance

Ren

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7 Oct 2012 - 10:40 AM

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KevSB
KevSB  101410 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
7 Oct 2012 - 10:54 AM

We welcome amateur photography out-of-doors at our properties. We regret that photography is not permitted indoors when houses are open to visitors. The use of mobile phones with built-in cameras is also not permitted indoors.

However, at most properties special arrangements can be made for interested amateurs (as well as voluntary National Trust speakers, research students and academics) to take interior photographs by appointment outside normal opening hours.

Requests to arrange a mutually convenient appointment must be made in writing to the property concerned. Not all properties are able to offer this facility and those that do may make an admission charge (including Trust members).


Quote: All commercial photography and filming requests must be channelled through the Broadcast and Media Liaison Officer. Telephone 01793 817400

http://www.photographers-resource.co.uk/a_heritage/Houses/national_trust_4_photographers.htm

Last Modified By KevSB at 7 Oct 2012 - 10:56 AM
ren
ren  3 United Kingdom
7 Oct 2012 - 11:00 AM

Thanks for your reply KevSB.

Apart from Stonehenge, none of them had entry ticket. This is for me to sell them as prints, not to sell through agencies. I vaguely recall a court case where NT has sued a photographer and were not successful. I do not know the ins and outs as at that time photography for me was just a hobby, to do some snaps.

Thanks for the link. It doesn't say what you do if you already have the photographs.

I will be contacting both parties, but sometimes they do not give you the real story, just put a fear of God into people. Considering you can see so many images of these sites for sale, I was wondering if anyone had the real info on this, or are all of those people just taking their chances and keeping the fingers crossed. I just hope I will get to speak to the right person. Not one that things, If in doubt, say no.

Last Modified By ren at 7 Oct 2012 - 11:03 AM
sherlob
sherlob e2 Member 82346 forum postssherlob vcard United Kingdom125 Constructive Critique Points
7 Oct 2012 - 11:28 AM

I recall there was a huge fuss about this a couple of years ago - basically the story was - you can take images for personal use, but you can't sell them without a licence. Of course the national trust give very, very few such licences - and I suspect make a healthy profit from the sale of such images. If I recall correctly, they ordered all image libraries to remove any images from NT property/land.

I've not heard that anything has changed - nor have I heard of any small independent photographer feeling the might of the NT for selling images on any medium other than the web. Still this was enough to stop me supporting the NT - the whole idea of this just feels wrong some how.

I'd be interested to learn of any changes...

puertouk
puertouk  31080 forum posts United Kingdom17 Constructive Critique Points
7 Oct 2012 - 11:41 AM

You can sell your images of NT properties as long as they are not interior shots. If the images are outdoors you can sell them. Obviously, every period property you visit, there is a ban of interior photography. They want to sell books to generate revenue and if every Tom, **** and Harry were taking photographs of the interiors, they would sell very few of these books.

Alan_Baseley
Alan_Baseley e2 Member 13323 forum postsAlan_Baseley vcard England2 Constructive Critique Points
7 Oct 2012 - 12:27 PM


Quote: Obviously, every period property you visit, there is a ban of interior photography. .

Not correct. I find that if you ask when entering you usually get one of 3 responses 1. Yes you can use your camera. 2. No you can't 3. Yes you can, but no flash can be used.
The answer you get appears to be random, although, these days, answer 2 seems to be coming less prevalent.

KevSB
KevSB  101410 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
7 Oct 2012 - 12:34 PM


Quote: Obviously, every period property you visit, there is a ban of interior photography. .

Not correct. I find that if you ask when entering you usually get one of 3 responses 1. Yes you can use your camera. 2. No you can't 3. Yes you can, but no flash can be used.
The answer you get appears to be random, although, these days, answer 2 seems to be coming less prevalent.

I recently was at A national Trust Property which had a no photos rules with 2 members of epz , I asked if I could use the House for photos, the lord himself answered the radio on request from a member of staff and we was given open access, so yes at the end of the day its down to the persons on the ground.

No comercial Photography at all and selling prints is just that, However if the NT would go after a small seller thats another story, they have gone after the picture agencys and you can no longer sell to them without that permission, the fact is your the one who has to assess the risk. Obvously from public Property this is a different matter and a whole new can of worms.

thewilliam
7 Oct 2012 - 12:47 PM

Whenever a admission ticket is sold, visitors are bound by whatever terms and conditions that they should reasonably have been aware of at the time of purchase.

In most cases, images taken from a public place, such as a footpath or road, may be used as the photographer sees fit. Some organisations, such as NT, are able to impose byelaws and in general Ministry of Defence properties are covered by the Official Secrets Act.

NT does seem to be protective of its image rights and has been known to use the might of the law, so I'd check for restrctions at each venue.

Places like the stones at Avebury are accessible to the public without having to buy a ticket and I don't recall seeing any notice that prohibits commercial photography but its still wise to check.

ren
ren  3 United Kingdom
7 Oct 2012 - 4:23 PM

Thank you all who have commented so far. I really appreciate your time and your knowlage. I will be checking with both parties next week to see what I can and what I can't do/sell. I will update once I have some answers.

MarkBauer
MarkBauer  4127 forum posts1 Constructive Critique Points
7 Oct 2012 - 5:39 PM

Just one other point. You mention Durdle Door in your original post. This is neither National Trust nor English Heritage, but private land - part of the Lulworth Estate - with very strict rules about taking photographs for commercial gain. And yes, they have been known to go after the small sellers.

ren
ren  3 United Kingdom
7 Oct 2012 - 8:33 PM

Thanks for your comment MarkBauer. I didn't realise that. Everything seems to be own by either National trust or English heritage in the UK, that I just asumed it was owned by one of the two. Though you do see a lot of those for sale as well.

ren
ren  3 United Kingdom
10 Oct 2012 - 11:29 AM

Just an update. English Heritage has got back to me and this is the part of the email:

Thank you for your e-mail. If you could send us some detailed information on where you will be selling them, and how many you are looking to sell and also if you could send over any low res images of the pictures we can then send the query over to English Heritage as they will need to confirm it. We do would charge a fee for this but this would depend on the details above so do send over as many details as possible regarding how the images and where they will be being sold

I have decided not to offer Stonehenge images for sale, as this moment in time I can not say if people would love them as much as I do and buy them. Now just awaiting response from National Trust.

mattw
mattw  105189 forum posts United Kingdom10 Constructive Critique Points
10 Oct 2012 - 5:39 PM

For Stonehenge, if you photographed from the public road, then you should be OK. If you paid to go into the English Heritage land to take the photo, then you would need permission to sell.

For the NT - William is right.

If you have paid to gain entry, then you need to abide by the terms and conditions of entry (and one of those is a 'no commercial photography' clause).

However if you visit a site with no restricted/ticketed access (essentially open access land), then its a bit a of a grey area. The latest I heard on the issue, was that the NT tolerates people selling photos from this land, so long as its not used for advertising. I have never heard of anyone getting into trouble for selling a photo of Bedruthan Steps, St Micheal's Mount, Porth nanven etc

ren
ren  3 United Kingdom
12 Oct 2012 - 11:59 AM

Another update for anyone who is interested or finds this thread at a later date. I have received an email from National Trust:

Thank you for your email. The National Trust don't own Silbury Hill, so you will need to contact the relevant landowner with regards this property.

Regarding Avebury, as this is open access land we don't restrict commercial photography unless for advertising/commercial product use so you may produce prints as this is a non pay upon entry NT property - presuming that you mean the stones/countryside as opposed to the house/gardens which is pay upon entry.


So that cleared it Smile

JJGEE
JJGEE  96342 forum posts England18 Constructive Critique Points
12 Oct 2012 - 12:05 PM


Quote: so you may produce prints as this is a non pay upon entry NT property

Presumably that also means views of Bodiam Castle in East Sussex from the outside are OK as you only have to pay to go across the footbridge over the moat to get inside.

But views of the gardens at Nymans it is not OK as you have to pay to get in. Sad

Last Modified By JJGEE at 12 Oct 2012 - 12:07 PM

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