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I've never been comfortable taking peoples pictures...with or without their permission.
...even more so after reading that article.
....probably why I concentrate on wildlife but now and again we're faced with a scene like this.
....what's a red blooded 'tog to do ?
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Maybe an idea Pete to invite the person who wrote the blog to make comment in the forum. Then it may be possible to demonstrate we're not all pervy old men in macs, it's such a shame if a few spoil things for us all.
Quote: but now and again we're faced with a scene like this.
....what's a red blooded 'tog to do ?
Whilst I appreciate this was an attempt at a joke Mike, if someone from the Goth community were to read the thread it could be seen differently - it could also be taken out of context and used in another blog post.
Quote: I always remember seeing a really beautifully dressed (1940s) woman and asking her if I could take her photo by an aircraft. She was embarrassed and said she didn't like having her photo taken and in my mind I was thinking well why have you come here dressed to impress
It's funny that people will go out in public and be happy for you to record their image on your retina but not on your memory card. Perhaps it's the thing where people are happy with how they look in the mirror but don't like how they look on photos. Then there's the extra scrutiny that flashlight or a sharp telephoto lens can bring.
Quote: probably why I concentrate on wildlife but now and again we're faced with a scene like this.
....what's a red blooded 'tog to do ?
Ok, you've put a smiley, so are probably being tongue in cheek, but why take that shot? The lady in question looks as if she is not happy with you taking it. So is it just taken so have a shot of a strangers legs you can look at when you get home?
Hope that doesn't come across as rude or anything, just trying to understand. I can see the point of street photography where you are getting something interesting or people reacting with something in the environment, but I think taking this kind of shot is what the blog was getting at.
Pat - I think they just want to go out and enjoy themselves with others of a like mind, without people using them as free models. I have to say, when I was a member of a local camera club I got really bored of shots of people at events at every competition and lecture.
Quote: I've never been comfortable taking peoples pictures...with or without their permission
Has the art of candid photography died out?
Quote: It's funny that people will go out in public and be happy for you to record their image on your retina but not on your memory card
It's less permanent on the retina!
Quote: Has the art of candid photography died out?
We've just set up a photography group locally and we have a young girl who works in London who is a great candid photographer, just takes her compact with her on her commute and walk in and gets some really good shots, just very observant and I've not seen one shot where anyone has been looking at the camera or even aware of her presence, she just seems to be able to capture something real.
As I was "unoffically" invited by Nick above (my site records hits so found this forum I just wanted to pop say thank you for the general view expressed by the people in this thread and I am pleased to have been able to find more considerate individuals.
I never intended my post to vilify photographers - if you do a search on me you'll find I am quite fond of them personally - but myself and many of my friends have just become so exasperated by the situation at our events, and after happening across a couple of forums and then going in search of more I was really quite dismayed by some of the comments and wanted to bring the subject to the fore with a thought through insight.
I don't lay the blame for the escalation of this totally in the photographers’ court, I see many willing subjects at Whitby and elsewhere (chicken/egg?) and I'm not sure exactly what the solution is (if you can think of any please do let me know). But think the start is to try and educate people and help them understand how we feel.
I still find it very strange though that even here some people cannot understand that just because we dress the way we do we don't want to be photographed by some random individual. We love dressing up, for the art, for the enjoyment, for the social aspect. We enjoy seeing each others' outfits and even sometimes enjoy capturing them on film among ourselves. But we understand what it means to be part of our scene (whatever scene that is) so understand one another to a degree. Do we know what this random person will do with the photo? why they want it? how we will be portrayed? whether they want to make fun of us and show all their friends? whether they want to profit from the image and where we will end up finding it? we are not here for the amusement of the general populous. We understand that if we go to a place where we are in the minority we should expect some sort of harassment (obviously unfairly - but it's human nature to be interested/scared of the unusual) and so many of us are forced to dress down during the normal course of the day for an easy life, but at an event specifically for us we relish being able to pull out our finest and enjoy it in the open hassle free.... which is now no longer the case. It may get to the point where we have to hold completely private events in guarded and secured locations, if this mentality does not cease – which is a real shame. Not only for us, but for humanity generally.
Quote: Ok, you've put a smiley, so are probably being tongue in cheek, but why take that shot? The lady in question looks as if she is not happy with you taking it. So is it just taken so have a shot of a strangers legs you can look at when you get home?
...I took the shot because I liked what I saw....the lady on the left looked to me like she was posing for the picture
you see it different but I suppose we all see what we want to see.
There are many pictures on Ephotozine that are a bit pointless but so what it's all part of life and as long as we're not obsessive where's the harm.
If what I wanted was to look at a ladies legs there are probably a million pictures on EPZ much more suggestive than mine, in actual fact it's over a year since I took the picture and only brought it to mind when I read this thread.
Ten years ago a picture of a child enjoying themselves on a swing was acceptable now even an innocent shot like this is frowned upon....where will it end....obsessiveness takes many forms.
Amaranth, there's some brilliant examples of candid / street photography that have captured a time and a place. Look back over recent history and there are some great pictures of real punks, real mods, real rockers etc and the world would be a poorer place without these images.
I wonder if there could be some kind of agreement with photographers in advance where people who are happy to be photographed could wear something as a sign? Probably unworkable really.
Maybe I didn't put it quite right, but Nick_W probably said what I was trying to say when he posted this:
Quote: Whilst I appreciate this was an attempt at a joke Mike, if someone from the Goth community were to read the thread it could be seen differently - it could also be taken out of context and used in another blog post.
I love street photography, it's not something I do, because I always feel too conspicuous, but I do enjoy looking at good reportage street photography.
But I do understand why people don't want packs of people with cameras pushing them around, treating them as free models when they are out to enjoy themselves.
Quote: Amaranth, there's some brilliant examples of candid / street photography that have captured a time and a place. Look back over recent history and there are some great pictures of real punks, real mods, real rockers etc and the world would be a poorer place without these images.
A very good point - look at this newly joining epz member Chris Porsz. He's currently uploading photos that he took in the 80s. But I guess the difference is there was just him walking the streets of Peterborough shooting street life at the time. In Whitby the photographers now outnumber the goths.
Quote: I wonder if there could be some kind of agreement with photographers in advance where people who are happy to be photographed could wear something as a sign?
It would be great if that was possible, because while there may be goths who don't want to be photographed many do. Maybe a "No Photos" alert would be better.
Quote: Do we know what this random person will do with the photo? why they want it? how we will be portrayed? whether they want to make fun of us and show all their friends? whether they want to profit from the image and where we will end up finding it? we are not here for the amusement of the general populous.
I do understand this point of view. Photography which causes distress/discomfort to the subject will never have my support.
I suspect most of the problem lies with club photography and competitions, I know in my region alot of winning entry's are Goths taken at Whitby, In one regional exhibition a large percentage was this very subject, and competition photographers follow the Crowd in most case when it comes to comp.
Perhaps writing a letter to the regional Photographic federations laying out your fears and feelings on this would get a response with the message being passed down to the member clubs, It may even have an effect on the judging as those who do realize what a problem its becoming.
To the Gentleman who wrote the article don't feel its just your hobby, many other subject get the same treatment, take a look at the Donna nook seals for example, the wildlife is being damaged by those who claim to have an understanding of nature, as are many Bird sanctuary's as many photographers feel the rules don't apply to them and cause distress.
In my own personal intrest there are meny photographers who are very rude when exspecting living historiens to drop everything and play Mode l,But in most cases they dont mind as events are pay to get in so exspect a large part being photographers so will always oblige. we even encourage but in this case paying public alows the events to continue. I Understand why you all do it entirely and you should have some respect.
I have meny friends who do steampunk now and feel exactly the way you do.
How about this for a starter [and it is only a starter] so that Amaranth can adjudicate from her perspective.
WGW lasts from the Thursday to the Monday.
Co-operative photography to be restricted to All Day Sunday or Saturday Afternoon or............... whatever.
Co-operation guaranteed on production of a 'Press Pass' bought through the WGW website - just like the Goths buy their ticket. That way some money is ploughed back into the WGW for next year and everyone's happy.
No ticket - no posing. All 'togs to produce a ticket. If someone doesn't then the other 'togs have to errrrm persuade them to go buy one on the day which is at a higher rate than the internet bought ones.
Ownership of a ''press pass' does not guarantee co-operation by a Goth - it's up to the individual - but it would be recognised by the Goth Community that the money is now there to support the weekend.
Numbers of 'togs will reduce [no freebies] and be restricted to certain periods in a spirit of friendship.
*puts on asbestos underpants*
Let fly - but be polite, children
To the Gentleman who wrote the article...........
G'wan Amaranth ..............slap 'im
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