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Should a murderer get a whole-life sentence?

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mikehit
mikehit  46146 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
10 Jul 2013 - 1:54 PM

As has been said, the ECHR have effectively re-instated the situation as it was before 2003 when that ego-seeking trollop that was David Blunkett changed things because someone upset him.
I am not sure if I recall howls of outrage in 2002 about this....

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10 Jul 2013 - 1:54 PM

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Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139389 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
10 Jul 2013 - 2:04 PM


Quote: the ECHR have effectively re-instated the situation as it was before 2003

They have not even done that. It is only a recommendation.

I think it is fair enough to have a review of a sentence after 25 years in prison. A review means just that. It does not mean the prisoner will be let loose on the streets automatically.

Last Modified By Carabosse at 10 Jul 2013 - 2:06 PM
cathal
cathal  9492 forum posts Ireland4 Constructive Critique Points
10 Jul 2013 - 2:33 PM


Quote: Hanging, from the time that the hangman enters the cell of the condemned man, to him being dead averages 8 seconds. The actual death is 1 second. Read books by the old hangmen, it just couldn't be more humane.

Watch the documentary, then comment. When the Sadam regime were being hung, many lost their heads as the drop was wrong. Also, a short drop execution, effectively slow strangulation, isn't quick.

But this isn't the original point of the topic.

Big Bri
Big Bri  1315548 forum posts England
10 Jul 2013 - 4:08 PM


Quote: I strongly believe that prison should be about treatment first and punishment second. A large proportion of convicts will offend again soon after release, so isn't the punishment element irrelevant to the victims of these subsequent crimes? If treatment were effective, there would be no more victims!

So, first of all that says to me that "treatment" isn't working either, and secondly that perhaps the punishment is not severe enough. There are many documented cases of criminals happy to go back to prison for their 3 meals a day, Sky TV and a comfy bed. For many, their life inside is far more comfortable than out. No amount of "treatment" is going to help that.
They need to make prison less comfortable and instead spend the money on helping people get jobs.

lemmy
lemmy  71768 forum posts United Kingdom
10 Jul 2013 - 4:23 PM


Quote: To put the European Court of Human rights into perspective...

I doubt it is worth bothering. As the saying goes, there are none as blind as those who will not see.

The Michael Portillo programme Cathal mentioned was very thought provoking. And proved that it was perfectly possible to kill someone, not only painlessly but in such a way that if you asked them if they wanted you to stop the execution they would say no. The clip is on Youtube, Portillo and execution should find it.

llareggub
llareggub  3664 forum posts United Kingdom
10 Jul 2013 - 4:32 PM


Quote: To put the European Court of Human rights into perspective...

I doubt it is worth bothering. As the saying goes, there are none as blind as those who will not see.

The Michael Portillo programme Cathal mentioned was very thought provoking. And proved that it was perfectly possible to kill someone, not only painlessly but in such a way that if you asked them if they wanted you to stop the execution they would say no. The clip is on Youtube, Portillo and execution should find it.

I believe I have seen that one and countless others, there is no humane way of taking a life pure and simple!

lemmy
lemmy  71768 forum posts United Kingdom
10 Jul 2013 - 4:55 PM


Quote: I believe I have seen that one and countless others, there is no humane way of taking a life pure and simple!

Who said humane? I do wish people would read before they write, even more so when they themselves quote the word they have misread or misunderstood. Very frustrating and makes rational discussion quite difficult. . Humane means showing compassion or benevolence. Painless means no pain!

Death by hypoxia is painless. It is why people in light aircraft with a failed oxygen supply sing and wave happily at the plane that goes up beside them to signal them to reduce height. If you have watched the Portillo programme (and from what you say you obviously haven't), you would have seen that. A lack of oxygen supply to the brain leads to euphoria and then loss of consciousness followed swiftly by death.

This is not conjecture (or emotional, as your comment seems to be) but simple examination of facts. These facts exist whether someone likes them or not.

llareggub
llareggub  3664 forum posts United Kingdom
10 Jul 2013 - 5:13 PM

The third from last post on the previous page... Proving that something is painless does not in any way shape or form make it humane, anyway the death penalty is quite a step away from this topic of conversation but one I am perfectly willing to engage in.

lemmy
lemmy  71768 forum posts United Kingdom
10 Jul 2013 - 5:29 PM


Quote: Proving that something is painless does not in any way shape or form make it humane,

You still haven't read what I said. Here it is again - death by hypoxia is painless.

I do NOT think that death by hypoxia is humane. That is why I did not say that death by hypoxia was humane. I did say that death by hypoxia was painless.

You really need to find someone who will say that death by hypoxia is humane and argue with them rather than me. I just can't fathom where the bee in your bonnet is coming from.

Last Modified By lemmy at 10 Jul 2013 - 5:30 PM
cathal
cathal  9492 forum posts Ireland4 Constructive Critique Points
10 Jul 2013 - 7:16 PM

If you look up humane


Quote: humane |hjʊˈmeɪn| adjective
1 having or showing compassion or benevolence:
2 (of a branch of learning) intended to have a civilizing effect on people.

You could argue that death by hypoxia is compassionate, and equally could argue that compassion is not executing in the first place.

Isn't language wonderful?

robertt
robertt  864 forum posts United Kingdom
10 Jul 2013 - 7:19 PM

No it is not right, they should do 7 years then hanged.

Big Bri
Big Bri  1315548 forum posts England
10 Jul 2013 - 7:29 PM


Quote: No it is not right, they should do 7 years then hanged.

That's whole life then.... just a much shortened life...

llareggub
llareggub  3664 forum posts United Kingdom
10 Jul 2013 - 7:33 PM


Quote: Proving that something is painless does not in any way shape or form make it humane,

You still haven't read what I said. Here it is again - death by hypoxia is painless.

I do NOT think that death by hypoxia is humane. That is why I did not say that death by hypoxia was humane. I did say that death by hypoxia was painless.

You really need to find someone who will say that death by hypoxia is humane and argue with them rather than me. I just can't fathom where the bee in your bonnet is coming from.

There aint no bee and I am not arguing, I am using language that was used elsewhere in the thread at no point in time did I link that language to you, it was in a context with the discussion of the thread. In retrospect if I had of quoted both parties then this would not have happened... However I have never worked out how to quote 2 people on a forum!

I think the death penalty is inhumane and at no point in time did I say that the death penalty could not be painless, maybe we should just agree to... erm agree!

You can embolden all you like to make your point but it serves no other pint other than making you go down in my estimation!

thewilliam
10 Jul 2013 - 7:36 PM

In the USA, many prisoners seem to wait on death-row for so long that they've served what would be a normal UK life sentence.

I read somewhere that thiopentone sodium is the first element of the US lethal cocktail. Many of us will have been given this as a preliminary stage of a general anaesthetic and I haven't found it unpleasant. When I was asked to count after the injection, I got to 4 or 5 before it knocked me out. If it's being used for an execution, does it matter what follows?

Hallie
Hallie  1166 forum posts United Kingdom
10 Jul 2013 - 7:56 PM

Should a murderer get a whole life sentence? Surely not if they can be rehabilitated? Not that the prison system attempts that.

Where did the death penalty come into it? Its odd how the most 'democratic and free' country on the planet has the biggest prison population and executes almost as many people as what we might call the more 'draconian and uncivilised' states.

The problem arises when you start executing innocent people wrongly convicted. Not that it would ever happen in the free world. Right?

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