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strawman 11 22.0k 16 United Kingdom
21 Aug 2012 2:37PM
Kodachrome, from that description the world is you oyster and they are all going to be good so picking one will be tricky. Try the m4/3 cameras and do not forget to look at the big two of Canon and Nikon the 1100D is lighter than the A37 for example and the panasonic G series are a lot lighter. Ghosting is unlikely to be a big issue in the real world.

Happy hunting. Perhaps a Panasonic G series would be good for you.

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redhed17 9 680 England
21 Aug 2012 2:39PM

Quote:BTW, the loss of light doesn't affect the viewfinder. It's an EVF and you can set up the brightness as you like. You can set it up to see in the (almost) dark if you like - try that with your OVF. Or, indeed, try to set up your OVF to let you see what the picture's going to look like - best of luck with that.


But it's still a EVF, and some people don't like them, myself included. Wink The OVF v EVF is a whole other discussion, and it comes down to personal choice no matter what arguments for and against either option. Smile

The OP must think they are OK as he is considering them though. He must surely have checked whether he is OK using one. Wink (Read that the OP has checked out EVFs after I wrote this. )


To the OP, the 16-85mm is a quality lens, it is my lens of choice, Wink but as with any quality option, they are heavy. It depends what balance between weight/size and quality you want to choose. I always carry my camera over my shoulder, as around the neck gets uncomfortable very quickly. An Optech style strap with a wide neck part, and made of neoprene for comfort could make a big difference.

And checking out camera strap options is a cheaper option than changing a whole system if it allows one to carry the camera they've already got in comfort.
Steppenwolf 3 1.1k
21 Aug 2012 2:59PM

Quote:Is there any truth in 'ghosting' [I'm not too sure what they mean]on some images from SLT cameras. I read this on one of the review sites.
From what I gather, Sony designed the metering system to adjust itself and compensate for the loss of light which as stepp said only about 1/2 a stop due to the SLT.



Some people complained about ghosting in certain conditions on the first generation SLTs. It's not a problem any more - if it ever was a real problem. However, I wouldn't go to all the trouble of changing from a D5100 to an SLT to get a lighter system because it won't make much difference if any at all. Given that you don't need superfast tracking focus and don't need long lenses I'd go M4/3.

Strawman, I'm not comparing the A77 tracking to a 7D - I leave that to the reviews, which have various opinions. I must admit the stuff about a DSLR offering "reliable" AF seems a bit fanciful in my experience. As for 8fps being "plenty fast enough" this is complacent nonsense. You want to try 12fps before believing this stuff. You also want to try 24Mp. Bottom line strawman - try something for yourself before rubbishing it.

BTW, the Sony range doesn't "stop at 400mm". You can buy the Sony 300mm f2.8 G and the matched 1.4X/2X G teleconvertors, so you can get a 600mm f5.6. I've got the Minolta versions of these lenses and the quality is superb. Top grade matched TCs on a prime lens lose very little quality unlike TCs on a zoom which are usually useless. Also Sony now do a 500mm f4 G (specail order). Try to get your facts right.
strawman 11 22.0k 16 United Kingdom
21 Aug 2012 3:36PM

Quote:I must admit the stuff about a DSLR offering "reliable" AF seems a bit fanciful in my experience.
Perhaps it is your experience that needs rectification then.


Quote: As for 8fps being "plenty fast enough" this is complacent nonsense.
Is it? for some scientific recording purposes I might agree with you but for photography its not the be all and end all. I have used 14fps and 60fps, and to be honest I often for wildlife and sports use single shot. Sometimes it is better to have the moment than 60 shots of hit and hope. It all depends.

Which is more complacent, pressing the shutter and hoping to get the shot or timing the shot??

I have tried things, have you???

TC on a top zoom are fine have you tried some, do try first. I have to confess I had not spotted Sony have made a special to order 500mm lens, at long last. Why not put it on regular sale like Canon and Nikon do. Its an eye watering price, enough to fund the purchase of a proper camera with an equivalent lens eh Wink

Have you seen the olympus 300mm f2.8 lens and the teleconverter. Have you seen the photo's by Brian taken with Canon 400mm lens on a m4/3 camera. So I still think there is a fair bit of parity. Few will be able to afford the special to order Sony.
Steppenwolf 3 1.1k
21 Aug 2012 3:51PM

Quote:TC on a top zoom are fine have you tried some, do try first.


They're b*ll*cks. I've probably tried almost every combination of generic 1.4 TC (Tamron, Kenko) and Minolta/Sony zoom that there is and the results are bad. I've even tried the Sony 2X G TC on the Sony 70-200mm G (a lens which it is allegedly designed for) and the results are bad - although the 1.4X is OK. However, when attached to the Minolta 300mm f2.8 or f4 G lenses they work well. Unfortunately they don't fit the 500 mirror. I generally don't rubbish things I haven't tried.
mikehit e2
5 7.1k 11 United Kingdom
21 Aug 2012 4:10PM

Quote:They're b*ll*cks.


Image quality? Effect on AF? Something else?
mdpontin 10 6.0k Scotland
21 Aug 2012 6:23PM

Quote:Most people buy the kit lens and never buy another lens in the life so all these 'millions' of legacy lenses are mere paperweights. An even among enthusiasts, who really uses more than three lenses?

A very good point, but sadly most times when somebody talks about buying into a camera system made by somebody other than Canon or Nikon, one of the arguments regularly trotted out against it is that you won't have access to the hundreds of lenses that are made for those manufacturer's systems.
kodachrome 3 530
21 Aug 2012 6:36PM
Actually, its a rather lame sales pitch by some Photographic dealers and review sites, as I suspect most people won't bother to look for legacy lenses. and prefer to buy into the current system.
redhed17 9 680 England
21 Aug 2012 7:32PM

Quote:Actually, its a rather lame sales pitch by some Photographic dealers and review sites, as I suspect most people won't bother to look for legacy lenses. and prefer to buy into the current system.


While I agree that the majority of people may not buy more than the kit lens that they got with their camera, and that if they do they will buy new, Canon and Nikon have the largest choice of lenses. And most DSLR manufacturers have more lenses for their cameras than the CSC manufacturers do. (if DSLR lenses can't also be used, with or without an adapter) The CSC format is new, and it will take time to build up the catalogue of lenses that DSLR users may have access to.

If buying into any system, even if you have no intention of buying multiple lenses, imho it's a good idea to see what's available, what will be available soon, and what options are there just in case you get an interest in another aspect of photography. If there is no promise of additional lenses available at some point, would one be comfortable buying into a system with limited lens choices like the Nikon One system?

I have no intention in buying a 300, 400, 500mm telephoto lenses, but I'm happy the option is there to buy, and maybe more importantly with lenses which may cost thousands to buy, are available to hire. And lenses available to hire seem to be mostly limited to Canon and Nikon at the moment. That may not be important, but it is something to be aware of.
mdpontin 10 6.0k Scotland
21 Aug 2012 7:42PM
Yes, it's something to consider. But for most people it's not really a deciding factor.
Sooty_1 4 1.3k 203 United Kingdom
21 Aug 2012 7:52PM
Something else not thus far considered is that with the old pellicle mirrors and rangefinders etc. you couldn't afford to carry the camera with the lens cap off on a bright sunny day. The lack of obstruction between lens and film plane resulted in a lot of burnt shutter curtains. Projecting forward, the same applies now, except that if you don't know it's happening, you could also burn through your sensor as well. Possibly another reason they never really caught on before?

Nick
Steppenwolf 3 1.1k
22 Aug 2012 8:55AM
There's a warning in the manual about not "pointing the camera sunward for a long time" which is probably one of the million safety warnings in the manual that it's worth taking notice of. Like you say the sensor and internal mechanisms such as the shutter are exposed to the light and could be damaged. I suppose it gets you into the habit of always putting the lens cap on when you're not taking a photograph. I guess that flappy mirror in the DSLR had to have one advantage.
strawman 11 22.0k 16 United Kingdom
22 Aug 2012 9:52AM

Quote:I guess that flappy mirror in the DSLR had to have one advantage.
Put it next to longer battery life, better dynamic range, lower noise (light loss SLT only and impact of self heating effects), less viewfinder lag, easier to clean sensor (compared to SLT only).

But why worry for Kodachrome has given a requirement where to be honest all the systems will work well so he can choose what he want SLT, m4/3, classic SLR. So for his desire to loose camera weight the Panasonic G series sound great. Perhaps one like his friends G3???
kodachrome 3 530
22 Aug 2012 11:38AM
Thanks guys, I just thought of the Samsung NX10/11/20 CSC cameras as another possibility to my size and weight quest. Slightly smaller, lighter, APS-C sensor and a joy to use according to some reviews. negative, Small lense base but growing.
Steppenwolf 3 1.1k
22 Aug 2012 3:35PM

Quote:Put it next to longer battery life, better dynamic range, lower noise (light loss SLT only and impact of self heating effects), less viewfinder lag, easier to clean sensor (compared to SLT only).




Longer battery life - who cares, buy a spare battery
Better dynamic range - In the view finder maybe, but I'd rather see what the picture is going to look like
Lower noise - 1/2 a stop. Who cares.
Viewfinder lag - I can't see any on the latest OLED
Easier to clean sensor - No. The mirror moves out of the way

Basically these are all non-problems. Unfortunately the reflex mirror has some major problems which are inherent in the design - such as mirror shake exactly as you take a photo and compromised AF accuracy to name but two. The unreliable focus is the main reason why I decided that I would never buy a DSLR again. I've read that professional DSLRs are set up accurately and therefore AF accurately, but I don't see why I should spend several thousand quid on a camera just to get it to do the basics properly. Like I've said before I bought the A77 (rather than the A65) because it has AF fine tune - the irony is that I've never bothered with it because the focus is spot on - even with long wide aperture lenses.

KC - I would also consider the Nikon 1. The current V1 is not brilliant from some points of view, and the lens range is limited at the moment, but this will change quite quickly I think. The reviews seem to suggest that the IQ is up there with M4/3 and these are really portable cameras. Wait till next year and I reckon there'll be a more enthusiast-focused V2 with a better lens range - and the prices are coming down.

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