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Sony NEX range

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Thincat
Thincat  7616 forum posts
6 Jun 2010 - 8:42 AM


Quote: Also I do not think the UK government is nearly important enough to have caused the world financial recession however nice it may be to blame old Gordon.

The world wide recession has stuff-all to do with the devaluation of Sterling. Sterling has crashed because the last government had been running a huge financial deficit for the last 10 years of its term - the National Debt is now approaching 1 trillion - and there is only one person to blame for that, "old Gordon". Brown did a good job of blaming everything on the Yanks ("a tidal wave that rolled in from the Mississippi", I don't think so) but the banks' bale out only cost about 120 billion and could be regarded as an investment since it will probably be recouped in a few years anyway. This is one of those rare cases where there's only one culprit - Gordon Brown.

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6 Jun 2010 - 8:42 AM

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halohalo
halohalo  4 Philippines
23 Aug 2010 - 6:38 AM

am a newbie and thinking of buying sony nex 5 18-55 kit which i saw online for USD 600++ ( HK seller's website ) , will this be too expensive for a beginner or will Sony system be too complicated for someone who have not tried using DSLR/ DSLR like cameras?

strawman
strawman  1022003 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
23 Aug 2010 - 1:23 PM

To be honest most modern cameras, SLR or not, are easy to use in their auto modes. So do not let that put you off. But I find SLRS are easier to use when you want to take control. So to the next. If you are interested in photography I would point you in the direction of one of Sonys (or any other dSLR brand) in preference as for less money you could have a much more capable camera for less money.

Only but the NEX if portability is your main concern over all other items. Panasonic have their G range if size is very important to you and they came with big advantages such as an eye level viewer. There are times where composing via the LCD is possible and ok, but many more where having an eye level viewfinder is so much better.

Thincat
Thincat  7616 forum posts
23 Aug 2010 - 9:07 PM

The Sony NEX range is designed around a new mount (the Sony E-Mount) and it's going to be a new range of interchangeable lens cameras that have an APS-C sensor but don't have a the traditional SLR mirror. They're basically starting with a clean canvas and the obvious intention here is to try and integrate the stills and movie camera market by having a single set of lenses and two ranges of camera bodies - one stills (with HD capability) and one dedicated movie. So far, so good - nice idea.

The question is, is that what you want? Do you want a stills camera or a movie camera? If you want a stills camera I'd look elsewhere because the Sony E-mount range is limited and will remain so for a long time. Also the only compact thing about the NEX range is the camera body - everything else is just as big as any APS-C camera. And you don't get a decent viewfinder, yet. (This should be coming in the near future when the put in a decent EVF). If you want a niche market camera that can do also HD movies (and you like a really narrow depth of field) and looks "cool", then maybe (just) the NEX would be worth buying.

tigertimb
tigertimb  640 forum posts United Kingdom66 Constructive Critique Points
23 Aug 2010 - 10:43 PM

The NEX has one extra trick up it's sleeve with the very short distance from the mount to the sensor, which means that it's not as limited as it first appears.

This allows almost any lens ever made to be fitted with an adaptor which includes lens such as the Contax G rangerfinder series which are tiny as well as well as giving options for many other old pro lens which previously couldn't be adapted. You're stuck with manual focus, but can zoom the screen for very accurate focusing, and flip the screen up for operating old-style and shooting from the waste for a stable platform. So a number of pros are considering it a different beast entirely and picking up the NEX for the advantages of a compact body, superb lenses and a great sensor, operating manually and ignoring the pitfalls

If Sony bring out an EVF, add in body anti-shake with a later model and improve the interface it will only get better, but they're already selling well (and this includes me as I had a rethink at the idea of a tiny camera that takes a range of small quality Zeiss primes)

Tim

Toonman
Toonman  71420 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
24 Aug 2010 - 6:33 AM


Quote: The NEX has one extra trick up it's sleeve with the very short distance from the mount to the sensor, which means that it's not as limited as it first appears.

This allows almost any lens ever made to be fitted with an adaptor which includes lens such as the Contax G rangerfinder series which are tiny as well as well as giving options for many other old pro lens which previously couldn't be adapted. You're stuck with manual focus, but can zoom the screen for very accurate focusing,

So does the Samsung NX10.

Last Modified By Toonman at 24 Aug 2010 - 6:35 AM
tigertimb
tigertimb  640 forum posts United Kingdom66 Constructive Critique Points
24 Aug 2010 - 8:16 AM

Actually the Sony has a flange back distance of 18mm, the G2 of 20mm and the NX10 of 25mm which means that it doesn't have quite the same flexibility.

Add to that reviews showing that the NEX has at least a one stop advantage in noise over the Oly and the Panasonic 4/3rds with the Samsung performing relatively poorly.

And with the APS-C size and good dynamic range too, I still maintain that the NEX is currently the way to go if you want a portable camera with a high quality sensor to stick on the back of your Contax G Zeiss lenses, or Leica M8/M9 lenses etc.
This is obviously a completely different way to think of the camera compared to it's P&S upgrade marketing; you'd be putting up with the interface currently, focussing manually with the screen, but if results mean more than convenience it's an interesting option

Last Modified By tigertimb at 24 Aug 2010 - 8:17 AM
alianar
alianar  482 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
24 Aug 2010 - 8:34 AM

i have a sony a450 i think ill just stick to that who cares if the nex is more portable!

Thincat
Thincat  7616 forum posts
24 Aug 2010 - 8:55 AM


Quote: This is obviously a completely different way to think of the camera compared to it's P&S upgrade marketing; you'd be putting up with the interface currently, focussing manually with the screen, but if results mean more than convenience it's an interesting option

I'm afraid the idea of doing anything with an LCD (apart from reviewing a picture) doesn't appeal to me at all. On a sunny day it's virtually impossible anyway. I fail to see the advantage of having a tiny camera body when the sensor size dictates that the lenses are very large. When you've stuffed a 300mm f2.8 onto it the size of the body becomes pretty irrelevant and you're left with no IS and no AF - pointless. When they've put a good EVF on it (at least 1Mp, preferably more like 2Mp), added SSS and brought out a decent range of lenses then it will be a definite contender - particularly as they've got a NEX movie camera coming out. Until then it's half-baked.

It also occurs to me that they're probably better putting the IS into the NEX lenses so that the movie camera can take advantage of it also. Moving sensor IS on a movie camera is going to very tricky and power-hungry.

Last Modified By Thincat at 24 Aug 2010 - 8:57 AM
strawman
strawman  1022003 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
24 Aug 2010 - 11:36 AM

Have you looked at the new Sony SLRs, (well I guess without a moving lens they are not R any more Smile ) anyway, they have an EVF and fixed mirror and look to have made a size reduction without giving away too much, so if I wanted a compact Sony camera I would look there. Yes I think in-lens IS will start turning up more often again due to video needs.

Last Modified By strawman at 24 Aug 2010 - 11:37 AM
Toonman
Toonman  71420 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
24 Aug 2010 - 4:58 PM

I decided to go for the Samsung NX, it felt right, the Sony did not.


Quote: Add to that reviews showing that the NEX has at least a one stop advantage in noise over the Oly and the Panasonic 4/3rds with the Samsung performing relatively poorly.


I have heard that the Samsung does have more noise than the Sony, I accept that but, having owned a Panasinic G1 I can tell you that the Samsung leaves it (and my Olympus E600) for dead in the noise race.

Last Modified By Toonman at 24 Aug 2010 - 4:59 PM
Thincat
Thincat  7616 forum posts
25 Aug 2010 - 9:44 AM


Quote: Have you looked at the new Sony SLRs, (well I guess without a moving lens they are not R any more Smile ) anyway, they have an EVF and fixed mirror and look to have made a size reduction without giving away too much, so if I wanted a compact Sony camera I would look there.

These are the new pellicle cameras which Sony are calling SLTs (T for translucent). DPR have given the SLT55 their "Gold Award" which is encouraging and the review is very good - interesting that they think the EVF is better than the OVF on the cheaper DSLRs. It also beats the Canon 550D in nearly every category:

Better Video and Super fast Auto Focus during video
Better details in low ISO and less Noise in high iso (ISO up to 25.600)
Better Focus and metering
Better Dynamic range
Fully Swivel-screen
Super powerful Built in stabilization
Etc

What exactly is the point of the NEX range now - beats me.

tigertimb
tigertimb  640 forum posts United Kingdom66 Constructive Critique Points
25 Aug 2010 - 10:13 AM

Fits in my pocket and still gives me SLR quality - it's actually the identical sensor to the new A33 and the A55 is just using a slightly bigger version of the same thing.

If portability is not of interest though, or if you're wanting to fit the 300mm lens you mentioned, then I agree, it's not for you.

For me; I'm fitting the little Contax G Zeiss prime, 35mm f2 which is only marginally bigger than the pancake and loving the results.
And the screen is in a different league to most and with the daylight setting perfectly usable on a sunny day too

But I do agree that the new A55 is looking very nice and great to see the innovation too, changing the playing field a little and maybe showing the route that most SLRs will eventually follow, cutting costs and without the precision engineering needed with the moving parts. But give it a few years!

strawman
strawman  1022003 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
25 Aug 2010 - 10:44 AM


Quote: Fits in my pocket and still gives me SLR quality

Good lord you have big pockets Tongue

Thincat, I would suggest you play with one before drawing conclusions as from reading the reviews I think it is an interesting development but it sounds like Sony have not quite joined up all their thinking and there are a few compromises some might not mind while others will.

Specifically better fast AF in video yes but only with the lens wide open they should really have had contrast AF as well
Better detail in low ISO from the review

Quote: The A55 makes fairly good use of its 16 megapixel resolution and shows some detail up to approximately 3000 lp/ph which puts it in a similar ballpark as a Canon EOS 550D and a step ahead the Nikon D90.

I would read that as close but not better, possibly slightly lower resolution.

Quote: Less noise in high ISO

, JPEG only tested plus comments of

Quote: As usual, Sony's 'take no prisoners' approach to noise means that NR takes its toll, and from ISO 800 upwards fine detail is visibly being lost


Quote: Noise reduction is often a matter of personal taste (we prefer more detail and a little more grain than this blur), and until we get our hands on a raw converter it's impossible to tell how well the SLT-A55 compares with its peers in terms of actual image noise.

I would say jury is out

Quote: Better Focus and metering


Quote: AF system not quite up to capturing fast action No live view in 10fps/6fps shooting makes panning almost impossible

That is Hmm in my eyes for AF. for the cases where AF is critical such as sports and wildlife it may well lag, and that is no surprise as a classic SLR has 2/3 more light going to the AF modules.

Quote: Better Dynamic range

Again JPEG dynamic range is misleading and often down to tone curves so nowadays an often misleading item. I would wait till the RAW results are out. JPEG Dynamic range tests are in the easy to distort range of life.
Full Swivel-Screen yup good feature Smile

Quote: Super powerful Built in stabilization

Sad Still only a couple of stops capability, great if you have no IS lenses but not as good for AF precision on long lenses and since many have started to bring out IS kit lenses and have longer lenses with IS for the same price (or even less) than Sony non-IS lenses not so hot. Also not so good for video which is one of the plus points for this design????? They moved NEX series to in-lens IS so A mount should move also.

I think its hats off to Sony for doing this its a good step forwards for them, so lets see how it goes. The real win a watch solution has the phase detection sensors in the sensor (they are coming I have seen the patents etc) so you do not need the mirror so get 1/3 more light to the sensor and have a hybrid phase and contrast detection AF system with in-lens IS. and whats more it would cost less too.

For entry level cameras sony look to have mad an interesting offering.

Thincat
Thincat  7616 forum posts
25 Aug 2010 - 1:58 PM


Quote:
But I do agree that the new A55 is looking very nice and great to see the innovation too, changing the playing field a little and maybe showing the route that most SLRs will eventually follow, cutting costs and without the precision engineering needed with the moving parts. But give it a few years!

I agree entirely - it's the innovation that's so encouraging. There's been a lot of negative press about Sony's commitment to their photography division but I think this has laid any fears to rest. Sony now has two types of offering in the A-Mount range - the traditional DSLRs and the new SLTs which use an EVF and are much smaller and, it seems, cheaper. They've also got the NEX range using the new E-mount which will appeal to those who like small "fashionable" cameras, but also to those who maybe want to use the E-mount lenses on the forthcoming APS-C sensor movie camera.

I was thinking of ebaying my stuff a few weeks ago but it's looking good now. It's also good that Sony haven't brought out any SLRs (or the new SLTs) without in-body lens motors - unless I'm mistaken. I was worried about them doing a "Nikon" and potentially making their legacy screw-drive lenses obsolete, which would mean several thousand quids' worth of my lenses would be rendered valueless. SOny just need an updated A700 and A900 and they've got a great range.


Quote: Still only a couple of stops capability

This is based on DPR's slightly strange tests, using an 18-55mm at 5 feet. This is not a situation where I would expect IS to work very well. The tests that they've conducted on Canon/Nikon in-lens IS are always on much longer lenses and at greater range (because they can't focus that close, and because Canikon don't put IS into shorter lenses for obvious reasons). They still don't fare much better than 2 stops improvement IIRC. I'd like to see a proper test done with, say, a 300mm lens using in-body IS and a 300mm lens using in-lens IS, preferably at a reasonable range like 20'. I've seen a lot of posts about in-body IS not working on long lenses, but that's not my experience. I use a Minolta 500mm mirror on an A700 and I can get decent clear shots at below 1/100 sec a fair percentage of the time. Without IS I can't do that at 1/500, so I reckon it's a bit more than 2 stops.

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