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dcash29
dcash29  81870 forum posts England
27 Jun 2010 - 10:37 PM

Its looking like Fabio Capello is going to be the scapegoat.


Quote: What's the point of bringing a bunch of club-based individuals together and hoping they're going to act as a well oiled machine on the field

Isnt that what all the other teams are made up of?

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27 Jun 2010 - 10:37 PM

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strawman
strawman  1021991 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jun 2010 - 10:41 PM


Quote: maybe they do but it shows how poor our premier league is. You only have to see how often an English team wins in European competitions.

But English teams do well in Europe, not long ago the final was between two English teams. The Premier league is one of the best, if not the best in Europe.


Quote: Its looking like Fabio Capello is going to be the scapegoat.

I think the coaching and management team have a big responsibility as do the players.

Last Modified By strawman at 27 Jun 2010 - 10:43 PM
dcash29
dcash29  81870 forum posts England
27 Jun 2010 - 10:51 PM


Quote: The basic problem being with the schools and they way the teach the sport.

Arrr right here we go again


Quote: they won't be able to fashion championship sides from the likes of Defoe, Heskey, Upson, James, etc.

In my opinion your choice is rather unfair, i'll take it the etc. refers to most of the others including a striker that shouldnt have played in the last couple of matches.


Quote: I think the coaching and management team have a big responsibility as do the players.

Maybe but i feel everything comes down to natural ability in the end.

If the players had felt so strongly that they could win if they played in different positions used different tactics then they had the second half to prove their worth. Lets face it, what did they have to lose.

Last Modified By dcash29 at 27 Jun 2010 - 10:56 PM
Just Jas
Just Jas  1225716 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jun 2010 - 10:55 PM


Quote: ...and too much self-belief.

Strange! They were previously criticised for having little or no belief in themselves.

The England team is not the only team to have gone home losers and the eventually there will be only one team that hasn't lost.

We lost - live with it.

Last Modified By Just Jas at 27 Jun 2010 - 10:56 PM
strawman
strawman  1021991 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jun 2010 - 11:37 PM


Quote: Maybe but i feel everything comes down to natural ability in the end.

If the players had felt so strongly that they could win if they played in different positions used different tactics then they had the second half to prove their worth. Lets face it, what did they have to lose.


In Viki Pollard mode. yeah but no, but yeah, but no..

Having played and coach, at a low level I hasten to add, I am amazed at how different the game looks at the side to on the pitch. Could they have played better yes of course they could but time after time I have seen well trained average teams beat teams with star players because they can link up well. And that link up involves on and off the ball movement and skills. Often you just cannot see the big picture on the pitch.

I was once given the B team to get ready for a competition and to be honest not a striker in the team and no star players. But what they had was the ability to pass and good personal relationships. Within 4 sessions we had them passing the ball in attack formations such that at least one of them would get in the box and the tactic was to just take the shot as it happened. Also they picked up well on how to fall back in formation plus letting the keeper call the defence. In the first competition they went two rounds further than the A team and they kept to the system. Plus the reaction to a mistake was to get back into position not worry about it.

To me England did not have that team mentality and played as individuals. too many selfish wasted shots not enough team passing. And lets be honest Rooney had a shocking by his standard tournament. Lampard just looked scared. Gerrard had flashed of brilliance, but link up?

Last Modified By strawman at 27 Jun 2010 - 11:38 PM
Just Jas
Just Jas  1225716 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jun 2010 - 11:41 PM

Probably the best summing up, Strawman.

Camairish
Camairish  81276 forum posts Scotland
27 Jun 2010 - 11:57 PM

'Lampard just looked scared'

Lampard played well I thought today - he was almost the only one to hit the target with each shot at goal. Gerrard was shocking for the most part - and Rooney just looked unfit and uninterested.

Germany were great against Ghana in the last group game and it was obvious to most then (except the media) that unless England could step up a couple of gears they would get well beaten. Even if England had managed to top their group I doubt they would have beaten Ghana on today's form. They showed some good play the last 15 mins of the first half but that was it......for the tournament.

Capello has been incapable of shedding the dead wood inherited from McLaren and I think that is part of the problem. Back to the drawing board I feel.

I'm still for Spain this year.

spaceman
spaceman  105159 forum posts Wales3 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2010 - 12:12 AM

I hope England's poor display won't overshadow the debacle of the disallowed goal. A similar thing happened in tonight's Mexico/Argentina match. The World Cup, and football in general, risks becoming a meaningless farce if things aren't changed soon. Blatter must be disposed of.

tepot
tepot  94416 forum posts United Kingdom
28 Jun 2010 - 2:36 AM

England at times seem to rely more on kicking players from the opposing side than the ball itself, they are a very boring team to watch when you compare their ball skills with teams like Ghana, sorry but England doesn't deserve to win when they play like that!

Terry.

wrinkles
wrinkles e2 Member 5338 forum postswrinkles vcard United Kingdom
28 Jun 2010 - 9:58 AM

I don't think they should be paid.Grin

User_Removed
28 Jun 2010 - 11:17 AM


Quote: I don't think they should be paid.Grin

In general or for the games in this world cup? All England players donate their wages for National games to charities

SuziBlue
SuziBlue  1116195 forum posts Scotland10 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2010 - 12:45 PM


Quote: What's the point of bringing a bunch of club-based individuals together and hoping they're going to act as a well oiled machine on the field


Quote: Isnt that what all the other teams are made up of?

Doh! Didn't properly explain what I was getting at. I meant individuals in the sense that they didn't gel as a team, whereas other teams look as though they're well oiled machines (even though they're from different clubs).

Just Jas
Just Jas  1225716 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2010 - 1:00 PM


Quote: Capello has been incapable of shedding the dead wood inherited from McLaren and I think that is part of the problem. Back to the drawing board I feel.

Perhaps his big problem was in having to prepare a team for this World Cup event?

Perhaps starting to prepare a team for the next World Cup might have been a more viable proposition?

Perhaps he will get his chance for this - perhaps he won't now?

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139367 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2010 - 1:13 PM

I understand if the FA sacks Capello they will have to give him a pay-off of up to 12 million - all because they dropped a sacking clause from his contract recently. And this because the FA were terrified he'd be poached if they didn't drop it.

Incompetence at the (managerial) top of the game.... just maybe?

digicammad
digicammad e2 Member 1021988 forum postsdigicammad vcard United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2010 - 1:28 PM


Quote: The basic problem being with the schools and they way the teach the sport.

I couldn't agree more. When my son played for the school team they managed about 7 matches in a season, at other times the school decided it was too cold(!) or too close to cricket season. Now children aren't even allowed to play competitively until they reach a certain age, because they may get upset if they lose!!


Quote: Perhaps his big problem was in having to prepare a team for this World Cup event?

Perhaps starting to prepare a team for the next World Cup might have been a more viable proposition?

Perhaps he will get his chance for this - perhaps he won't now?

Yep. He needs plenty of time to groom the next generation, instead of having to try to make the most of the current crop who have been tainted by over-hype and too little passion.

To be honest, you watch these players week in week out in the Premiership and they exhibit major amounts of skill and passion. I can understand why they may have failed to gel as a team, but where was the individual skill and effort?

My final rant is why do England teams always refuse to play at the pace of the Premiership? That's what we are best at! For the 5 minutes they actually picked up the tempo yesterday they had the Germans rattled and scored 2 goals (okay so 1 wasn't given). Then they went back to plodding around the pitch like a bunch of geriatrics and the consequences were inevitable.

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