Login or Join Now

Upload your photos, chat, win prizes and much more

Username:
Password:
Remember Me

Can't Access your Account?

New to ePHOTOzine? Join ePHOTOzine for free!

Like 0

Spyder 4 Elite

Join Now

Join ePHOTOzine, the friendliest photography community.

Upload photos, chat with photographers, win prizes and much more for free!

MrDennis
MrDennis  5226 forum posts Wales
4 Dec 2013 - 5:41 PM

I have used a Spyder 2 Elite for years and found it easy to use. It does a great job.
I just bought a Spyder4 Elite as the reviews say it is Great & only takes 5 minutes. Oh Yea!!....So last night at about 12:00midnight I decided i would do a quick calibration of my Samsung 22" monitor. Quick! They got to be JOKING!!!..Took me 5 hours. I reset my monitor (BIG mistake).
I had to mess around with the RGB + Brightness. CRIKEY!! who the Heck has their Brightness at 100. I use photoshop'Lightroom and both my monitors are Brightness 25 and I get Great Prints. Anyway, after calibrating and printing I had to face Defeat..That was until I decided on two more tries..This time I just choose the Gamma 2.2 (same as before) and this time the 6500Kelvin, instead of rgb. Still had to mess around with RGB though.. Still had to put my Brightness to 100, which makes the monitor too Bright. In the end I think I got it just right. A few prints will tell the truth. Not going to touch my Dell until I know this works. But why the HECK at 100. Don't make sense to me. No wonder people have bad Eyes..My settings

Gamma--current 2.2---mine 2.2
Whitepoint-- current 0.317/0.329---mine 0.327/0.313 (not quite as I want it)
Bright- black-target 0.32 white 1.20 mine blk 0.31--wht 1.00 (not bad)
White Point target blk 0.313 why 0329 mine calculated blk 0.314 wht 0.319 (not too bad)
Primaries don't understand them. so not putting it in. My Green not as I would like it.
Delta white point target wht 2.5 50% gray 1.6 mine 0.5 & 0.7 (was told that is very good, the lower the better)

This is as close as I have ever got using a Spyder. Samsung 226bw is the monitor, not the best for calibrating. But I do not understand why we have to push the Brightness to it's Max 100 in order to get what i want. Did not have to do that with Spyder 2..
Anyway, a few more prints will tell the tale.
gamma target 2.2 mine 2.2

Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links 
4 Dec 2013 - 5:41 PM

Join ePHOTOzine for free and remove these adverts.

GlennH
GlennH e2 Member 91880 forum postsGlennH vcard France1 Constructive Critique Points
4 Dec 2013 - 6:04 PM

Normally it's contrast that is initially set to 100%, since that is typically used to tweak the highlights and adjusting it eats into dynamic range. The only reason you'd set brightness at 100% is if the backlighting is dying and you can't otherwise achieve a particular target luminance.

Most forms of calibration/profile verification are of limited value, because you're using the same potentially inaccurate instrument to measure its own accuracy.

MrDennis
MrDennis  5226 forum posts Wales
4 Dec 2013 - 6:34 PM

My Contrast on Both monitors is set to 75..Spyder says to set to 100 and only 100 gives a good calibration. That's what I thought was wrong. Some monitors settings are 75 - 75 or 75 - 100 or 100 - 100 Stupidly (in my book) they all vary. Have No problems with the Spyder 2. Thanks for your comment.Appreciated.

GlennH
GlennH e2 Member 91880 forum postsGlennH vcard France1 Constructive Critique Points
4 Dec 2013 - 7:23 PM

Yes, it's confusing that default contrast settings vary. But because contrast usually addresses the highlights in an LCD it makes sense to initially have that set to maximum, otherwise you're immediately limiting dynamic range and gamut. This doesn't happen when you adjust brightness (within reason), because you're essentially shifting the whole dynamic range up and down.

Normal routine is to set the black point with the OSD brightness control so you can discern dark shadow detail, and then tweak the contrast if highlight detail is burnt out. The former is a physical adjustment, the latter a digital one - so doing most of the donkey work with the brightness control is generally a good thing.

Dave_Canon
4 Dec 2013 - 7:28 PM

I use the Spyder 3 Pro. I have just checked and the contrast on my two monitors and they are 60 and 65. The Spyder 3 Pro help suggests setting the contrast to the factory default (or 50).

The target brightness is 120 cd/m**2 and my two monitors are very close to this with settings at 57 for one and 50 for the other. Before the profiles are loaded at boot up my two monitors look significantly different in tonal levels and colour. As the two profiles are installed they look almost identical.

Dave

GlennH
GlennH e2 Member 91880 forum postsGlennH vcard France1 Constructive Critique Points
4 Dec 2013 - 8:01 PM


Quote: The Spyder 3 Pro help suggests setting the contrast to the factory default (or 50).

...which is something I don't particularly understand. So what happens if you then increase the contrast setting? Theoretically in an LCD monitor a maximum contrast setting also gives you maximum dynamic range - unless it's deliberately set low to counteract a crazy high default brightness setting.

MrDennis
MrDennis  5226 forum posts Wales
4 Dec 2013 - 11:46 PM

Most sites that do this kind of thing recommend that my Contrast be set at 75 of which I have done for over 10 years. Been using the Spyder 2 for about 5 years or near to that. One site suggests that RGB be reset to 50 - 50 - 50, Gamma Mode on number 1 setting 2.2, Bright 100 con 75..That is what I did for Re-Calibration, but too bright for my eyes, so I must redo again soon and find a way of having my brightness to anything from 50 to 20. Unless I can get use to this. lol Mind you, after looking at same images on this Samsung and my Dell, the Samsung images Look better with Good contrast. Still not re-printed yet, so will do later..

So, if I put my Brightness to say 50, what should the contrast be ? Because Every one that makes these calibrators say not to touch the contrast, only the brightness. Those that have it too bright print out DARK..Only do the RGB and Bright. I wish I was Brainier..
My factory default is 75 for contrast..My R =15 G=6 B=90. That is Really Silly, no wonder my green is not quite right in print. I will try some settings that others are recommending in a forum for my monitor and go from there.
Cheers Folks..

GlennH
GlennH e2 Member 91880 forum postsGlennH vcard France1 Constructive Critique Points
5 Dec 2013 - 12:18 AM

There are numerous places that recommend kicking off with 100% contrast, including Dry Creek Photo here, and X-Rite here (PDF). There are sound reasons for doing things that way - you start off with maximum dynamic range (which contrast directly affects) and dial the contrast down if highlight areas are blown after setting the black point.

One of your potential problems, Dennis, is that you're talking about brightness in terms of the percentage setting of your monitor, but that changes in meaning as the monitor gets older. To return a monitor to the same state every time you have to actually measure its luminance, usually in candelas per square metre. Your Spyder Elite package can do this, but it will bypass it if you allow it to measure the screen 'as is'.

Fiddling with the RGB controls is also affecting the gamut and dynamic range of the screen. That's okay if you're making minor tweaks, but less is very often more in calibration.

MrDennis
MrDennis  5226 forum posts Wales
5 Dec 2013 - 4:17 AM

I have redone the calibration and the Spyder recommended 5800K for my room ambiance...Brightness 100 Contrast 75. My B&W with a slight change as it was done on other monitor printed Excellently..Colour print was Very Good. Happy Now. RGB is now 50-50-50.Gamma is 2.26 instead of 2.2 but I can live with that.The rest is near Spot On. After looking at this screen, my other monitor looks Awful. LOL
So a Calibration on the Dell u2412m is due soon. That will be tricky as I forgot how to use the Intel Colour Management ICC Profiler that I have to Integrate my profile into. Will look for it on internet and bookmark it this time.. Many Thanks for the Help.

GlennH
GlennH e2 Member 91880 forum postsGlennH vcard France1 Constructive Critique Points
5 Dec 2013 - 8:42 AM

Of course - 100% brightness probably means you're editing in a relatively bright room. I never use an ambient light sensor so I keep forgetting about it.

Glad you got the result you wanted, though I'm unconvinced I contributed much to it! Smile

MrDennis
MrDennis  5226 forum posts Wales
5 Dec 2013 - 2:26 PM

Hi GlennH---Actually I'm calibrating at Night in a Dark Room, reason why it is telling me "Medium to low Ambiance" I need Br of 100 @ 5800K. What I can gather about this new stuff is that the Ambiance tells the Calibrator how bright or dark it is, then it sets the Kelvin. So I reckon, those like me who like a kelvin of 6500 had better calibrate in the day. BUT, instructions say to do it in Dark in your working environment. So my working Environment at night is Dark room with one light on at rear of monitor to my right.
Just took an Ambient reading and it says "Current Ambient Light Level: High" (Daylight time). Go figure..
I wonder if this Ambiance setting is baffling Loads of others as it is me. Good job we got Forums to ask Questions in.
Data Color say it is easier to use, I beg to differ at this point. Still, it is doing it's job with no complaints on the printing..
Many Thanks.
Dennis

Dave_Canon
5 Dec 2013 - 3:25 PM

I wait until it is dark but add a small amount of ambient light as I normally edit with low ambient light in the evening or in the day with a blind closed. The brightness figure for this is 120 and I use a WP of 5800. However, I am certain that you can manually change the WP to whatever you want before you start to calibrate. Spyder actually suggest that 6500 is normal for most monitors but also that some photographers prefer 5800 because this is more typical of the light that prints are viewed by. When you are in the "Choose Settings" screen just click on the "Change Settings" button and set 6500.

A useful discussion as it made me check my own settings and might try 6500 myself next time though I have not been having any problems.

Dave

GlennH
GlennH e2 Member 91880 forum postsGlennH vcard France1 Constructive Critique Points
5 Dec 2013 - 3:34 PM

I don't believe ambient light sensors are necessary, for the most part, Dennis, which is why I've always kept them switched off. When you think about it, if you're trying to calibrate the screen to match a specific output, the effort is somewhat hampered if you constantly have to adapt the settings to whatever ambient light conditions prevail at the time. I've never found any colour/calibration pundit that said this is a vital part of calibration - usually they say the opposite, that it's primarily a gimmick to sell calibrators.

If you have daylight entering the room it'll obviously change in colour temperature from day to day, and according to the time of day, whereas meticulous printers (doesn't include me) are usually looking to match the screen to a particular print-viewing light with a specific colour temperature and brightness.

keithh
keithh  1022725 forum posts Wallis and Futuna29 Constructive Critique Points
5 Dec 2013 - 3:51 PM

Daylight entering the room?

Are you mad? Wink

GlennH
GlennH e2 Member 91880 forum postsGlennH vcard France1 Constructive Critique Points
5 Dec 2013 - 3:57 PM


Quote: Are you mad? Wink

Yes, certified. Wretched daylight can always be completely blocked out in France - barely a window exists without a shutter to cover it.

Add a Comment

You must be a member to leave a comment

Username:
Password:
Remember me:
Un-tick this box if you want to login each time you visit.