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User_Removed
25 Oct 2012 - 4:15 PM

I was talking to a professional photographer (mainly weddings and portraits) who has recently moved from a Nikon D700 to a Nikon D800.

One of the huge benefits he says he gets from the 36Mp sensor is that he no longer needs to change the orientation of his camera between "Landscape" and "Portrait" when shooting. He finds it far easier now to simply shoot every photograph holding the camera in "Landscape" position and simply crop to portrait format if that is what he wants for a particular print.

Seems to make total sense.

But it raises another question in my mind - why do digital cameras not have square format sensors? We use circular lenses, which means that a rectangular sensor "misses" part of the image projected by the lens. A square sensor would avoid much of this loss and would allow any format of photograph to be selected in post-exposure processing.

In the days when we all used 6x6 film cameras, we rarely printed square photographs - we cropped them to a rectangular format - landscape or portrait as desired - with the masking frame on the enlarger easel.

A 30mmx30mm sensor would actually give slightly more sensor area than full-frame 36mmx24mm.

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25 Oct 2012 - 4:15 PM

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paulcookphotography

Um, which lens does he have bolted on?

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139450 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
25 Oct 2012 - 4:39 PM

In the olden days the image used to be circular.


1-circ.jpg

User_Removed
25 Oct 2012 - 4:54 PM


Quote: Um, which lens does he have bolted on?

Why would that matter, Paul?

(I think he uses the 24-70mm f/2.8 most of the time and an 85mm (don't know which version)

keith selmes
25 Oct 2012 - 4:56 PM


Quote: In the olden days the image used to be circular.

If you used a circular mask when printing, or just took a pair of scissors to the print. The only way you normally see a circular image is if the the lens can't cover the ground glass you're using. Then you might crop circular because the lens isn't up to it, and the corners are too fuzzy.

paulcookphotography


Quote: Um, which lens does he have bolted on?

Why would that matter, Paul?

(I think he uses the 24-70mm f/2.8 most of the time and an 85mm (don't know which version)

On a 24-70, there would obviously be a big difference in horizontal and vertical at the wider end, and rotating the body would therefore effect the image and any distortion. I am assuming you mean he shoots wide on the large sensor to allow plenty of room around the subject(s) for cropping later?

I'm sorry, but i think investing in a grip and using the camera to its potential and composing properly would be a far greater exercise for a 'professional' than a simple 'shoot and crop'

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139450 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
25 Oct 2012 - 5:09 PM


Quote: If you used a circular mask when printing, or just took a pair of scissors to the print.

So far as I am aware the pic I have posted is not cropped or cut in any way. Very early cameras actually recorded cirular images not square or oblong.

ikett
ikett  4351 forum posts England
25 Oct 2012 - 5:09 PM

I've thought the same myself,
Quote: A 30mmx30mm sensor would actually give slightly more sensor area than full-frame 36mmx24mm.

I very seldom crop to a square, from a square I could crop to any format.

RogBrown
RogBrown  73006 forum posts England10 Constructive Critique Points
25 Oct 2012 - 5:15 PM


Quote: So far as I am aware the pic I have posted is not cropped or cut in any way. Very early cameras actually recorded cirular images not square or oblong.

But it wouldn't produce a sharp edge such as this surely?

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139450 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
25 Oct 2012 - 5:23 PM

Here is an example of a camera which took circular images - 3.5 inch diameter.

keith selmes
25 Oct 2012 - 5:59 PM


Quote: an example of a camera which took circular images

It's got a circular mask installed, "Due to the rather non-stellar performance of their simple lenses"

http://cti.itc.virginia.edu/~ds8s/237/kodak/no2kodak.html

The cropping in this one is much as I suggested, you would crop the corners because the lens didn't cover properly. Only they're doing it in camera instead of in darkroom. The film will be suitable for rectangular format with a better lens, and the paper printed on will be rectangular. It's very unusual, and not a feature of early cameras, it looks more like they've found a solution (fix ?) for getting an acceptable product out at a price the punters will go for. Quite an inspired solution. It isn't really an early camera though, although it is an early film camera.

(Early cameras used rectangular copper plates, and again, you get a circular image if the lens doesn't cover the format)

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139450 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
25 Oct 2012 - 6:24 PM

Surely all lenses "see" a circular image and, in that sense, every image we take these days - on whatever type of camera - has been cropped to a particular shape?

It might makes more sense, in these digital times, for cameras to revert to taking circular images which we can then crop in whatever way we want.

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41207 forum posts United Kingdom198 Constructive Critique Points
25 Oct 2012 - 6:29 PM

All cameras project a circular image when you use a circular aperture. We just choose to crop to the middle of it, because the outer edges of the projected field aren't usually very well corrected. There are occasions where the recording medium isn't big enough, thus a circle or part thereof is formed. Using a DX lens on an FX sensor, you get vignetting caused by the image circle not being big enough. I think a square crop would be good (remember 126 film anyone?) as it would maximise the picture projection you could use (as a square has a larger area inscribed in a circle than a rectangle).

It's a big consideration with larger format cameras, where image circles have to be big to cover 7"x5", 10"x8", and upwards.

Nick

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139450 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
25 Oct 2012 - 6:56 PM


Quote: All cameras project a circular image when you use a circular aperture

And all lenses have a circular aperture. There is no reason to crop to anything other than a circular image, other than it has become traditional to do so.

KevSB
KevSB  101407 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
25 Oct 2012 - 7:05 PM


Quote: All cameras project a circular image when you use a circular aperture

And all lenses have a circular aperture. There is no reason to crop to anything other than a circular image, other than it has become traditional to do so.

It was Considered a waste of paper when printing and the fact the edges of the lenses was so poor quality, Thats why it became unpopuler

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