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User_Removed
4 Sep 2011 - 12:23 PM

One of the guys said in another thread "the difference between 30 seconds and 4 mins isn't that great - only 3 stops difference (same as going from F4 to F11)". It makes me realise that though I know the difference f16 will make to a photograph compared to say f2 I've never learned to work out stops in my head.

What's the easy way to do it? Can you calculate them or is it logarithmic and you have to learn them off by heart?

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4 Sep 2011 - 12:23 PM

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spaceman
spaceman  105159 forum posts Wales3 Constructive Critique Points
4 Sep 2011 - 12:29 PM

I just learned them off by heart. There aren't that many of them though.

2, 2.8, 4, 5.6, 8, 11, 16, 22.

That's it.

Coleslaw
Coleslaw e2 Member 813402 forum postsColeslaw vcard Wales28 Constructive Critique Points
4 Sep 2011 - 12:30 PM

just use your smart phone.

TBH, I can never remember either....Grin

Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 63723 forum postsNick_w vcard England98 Constructive Critique Points
4 Sep 2011 - 12:30 PM

I can never remember the log thing chris (I think its x the previous setting by 1.414 - obviously talking about aperture) - I just remember them, 1,1.4, 2,2.8,4,5.6,8,11,16,22 etc,

ISO & shutter speed are easy -just double / half to go up and down.

But to understand things in stop terms helps (like 4 mins compared to 30 seconds) - It really comes to life with a 10 stop filter, 1/30 sec becomes 30 seconds (or more dramatically a 1 second exposure becomes a 68 minute exposure).

Last Modified By Nick_w at 4 Sep 2011 - 12:34 PM
User_Removed
4 Sep 2011 - 1:19 PM

So if I've got this right you learn the apertures and it's a mistake to think that the relationship between f16 and f8 is double?

Are any lenses half-stops (by that I mean is my f1.4 lens a whole stop wider than f1.8?)

With the times and the ISO you just double or half depending on the direction?

Last Modified By User_Removed at 4 Sep 2011 - 1:21 PM
oldblokeh
oldblokeh  2722 forum posts United Kingdom
4 Sep 2011 - 1:42 PM

It's actually incorrect to refer to apertures as f16, f8 etc. It's actually f/16 or f/8. 'f' refers to the focal length of the lens. It's then divided (hence the '/') by a number. The result is the theoretical diameter of the aperture. So a 200mm lens at f/8 would have an aperture diameter of 25mm. It turns out that by using this system a 50mm lens at f/8 and a 500mm lens at f/8, both pointed at the same illumination, would give the same exposure. The quantity of light admitted through an aperture is proportional to the area of the aperture. The area is proportional to the square of the diameter. This is why f/16 lets through a quarter as much light as f/8. Here are the workings for a 256mm lens.

A 256mm lens at f/16 has a theortical aperture of diameter 16mm and area about 200 sq mm.
A 256mm lens at f/8 has a theoretical aperture of diameter 32mm and area about 800 sq mm.

In order to allow settings equating to halving (or doubling) the exposure, we need to have f/ numbers in steps of the square root of 2, which is about 1.414.

Hope this helps.

User_Removed
4 Sep 2011 - 1:48 PM

Ages ago, there was a standard called Uniform System, where the doubling was actually corresponding to the value.
U.S. 16 is the same aperture as f/16, but apertures that are larger or smaller by a full stop use doubling or halving of the U.S. number, for example f/11 is U.S. 8 and f/8 is U.S. 4.

lol Grin

Last Modified By User_Removed at 4 Sep 2011 - 1:49 PM
Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 63723 forum postsNick_w vcard England98 Constructive Critique Points
4 Sep 2011 - 1:56 PM

You don't really need to remember it Chris, not with modern cameras. You don't need to calculate exposure.

Just know what it does. Small no = large hole = short exposure time limited dof

Large no = small hole= long exposure = large dof

User_Removed
4 Sep 2011 - 3:54 PM


Quote: So if I've got this right you learn the apertures and it's a mistake to think that the relationship between f16 and f8 is double?

With the times and the ISO you just double or half depending on the direction?

Shutter speeds, ISO settings and apertures are all the same in that respect - yes, the simple way of putting it is that you half or double. Which is why they are not linear progressions.

It is also why the mysterious figure of 18% is used for a mid-tone grey card. It has nothing to do with the oft quoted myth about a survey undertaken by Kodak; it is purely because on that non-linear scale, 18% is exactly halfway between 0% and 100%; in other words midway between pure white and pure black.

Last Modified By User_Removed at 4 Sep 2011 - 3:58 PM
User_Removed
4 Sep 2011 - 4:03 PM

...but what you'll notce in the progression of aperture stops, the way they are written, is that it is the difference between each that halves or doubles.

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade  1014554 forum posts England216 Constructive Critique Points
4 Sep 2011 - 4:16 PM

the ratio between the stops is the square root of 2...

Boils down to the radius of the aperture - if you double the aperture, the hole doubles in size... the are of a circle is "pi" * radius squared.... so one stop brighter would be 2 * pi * radius squared... somewhere along the line in the sums, that "2" gets rooted and that's where the ratio comes from ... I think Wink

I find explaining what Aperture is one of the more interesting challenges in workshops/1-2-1 trainng sessions, using all sorts of metaphors and analogies, beer being my favorite.

newfocus
newfocus  7644 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
4 Sep 2011 - 4:40 PM


Quote: that's where the ratio comes from ... I think

Yep - pretty logical once you get your head round it - 1.4 x the diameter of the aperture = twice as big an area letting light in = twice as much light hitting the film/sensor in a given time. So the f/stops go up in ratios of 1.4 whereas time and ISO sensitivity simply double for each stop.

keith selmes
4 Sep 2011 - 5:35 PM


Quote: the difference between 30 seconds and 4 mins isn't that great

This depends on the temperature. Time dilates as the temperature falls, so 3.5 minutes at room temperature is not long, but 3.5 minutes at -5 celsius is a hell of a long time, especially if there's a wind chill factor or you forgot your gloves.

cameracat
cameracat  108575 forum posts Norfolk Island61 Constructive Critique Points
4 Sep 2011 - 6:04 PM


Quote: wind chill factor or you forgot your gloves.

LOL....Smile For sure, Would not be the first time I got welded to my tripod....BBrrrrrr Sad

newfocus
newfocus  7644 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
4 Sep 2011 - 6:14 PM

I can see the tabloid headline now - "Photographer dies of long exposure"

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